How to stack boards on their edges for table railings?

[AlanMintaka]

Hi Everyone,
I'm working on a large train table that currently has 3" railings made from 5/4" boards attached on their edges to the table.  I attached the railings by driving wood screws through the bottom of the table and into the edges of the railing boards.   The corners of the railings were attached using wood screws.

I've decided I need higher railings for the layout I'm planning to make.  I don't have the bucks to buy a whole new set of wider 5/4" boards, so I bought some narrower (cheaper) 5/4" boards to add to the tops of the existing railings.

In other words, I want to stack 5/4" boards on their edges.  I figured I could use splicing cleats of some kind. 

I have some of those flat steel splicing plates used in construction.  I can use those to attach the stacked boards to each other from the insides of the railings.  It's pretty thin stuff, a lot more unobtrusive than wooden cleats would be.  I'll be using pan head wood screws to attach the plates. 

But now I'm wondering: is this really the best way to attach boards stacked on their edges to each other?  Would it actually be better to drive wood screws all the way through the edges of the top board into the side of the bottom board?  5/4" board is thicker than 3/4" lumber, but not by much.  As usual the dimensions are all really smaller than nominal because the lumber has been planed - so 5/4" board is slightly less than 1/2" thicker than 3/4" board.

Or is there some other, better way to attach boards stacked on their edges?

Thanks for your time,

[jward]

one other method that might work better would be to use dowell rods to fasten the boards together. you'd have to be pretty accurate in how you drilled your holes, but 1/4" dowells inseterd into the top of the existing railing, and the bottom of the added raiing should hold things together pretty solidly. plus it is alot cheaper than using cleats and screws.

[AlanMintaka]

one other method that might work better would be to use dowell rods to fasten the boards together. you'd have to be pretty accurate in how you drilled your holes, but 1/4" dowells inseterd into the top of the existing railing, and the bottom of the added raiing should hold things together pretty solidly. plus it is alot cheaper than using cleats and screws.

That's an interesting idea.  I hadn't thought about dowels or some other kind of mounting pins.  That way there aren't any holes drilled all the way through either board.

Accuracy would indeed be the problem for me there.  "I forgot to mention" in my first post that I stink at carpentry.  That's not self-effacing lip service, either.  I really do stink.  That's why I've been bulling my way through building this table without doing anything fancy - just wood screws to attach everything after it's been clamped in place.

I'm guessing the dowels are close to being the best way technically, but something that I could easily turn into disaster!

Thanks for that idea though - maybe as I get more practice with woodworking I can graduate to that kind of method.

Have a good one,

[ddellacca]

Your hardware store and/or lumber yard will have a large choice
of steel brackets designed for just what you are trying to do.
The ones I'm thinking of will be likely 1/2 inch wide by 2-1/2 to
4 inches long , usually with 4 holes pre-drilled and counter-sunk,
sometimes only 2 holes.

Hope this helps,
Dick

[rustycoupler]

 Just sit the extra boards on top of the other with the dowell pins already installed and trace the outline of the dowells on the new boards and drill out , glue and you are done.

[AlanMintaka]

Your hardware store and/or lumber yard will have a large choice
of steel brackets designed for just what you are trying to do.
The ones I'm thinking of will be likely 1/2 inch wide by 2-1/2 to
4 inches long , usually with 4 holes pre-drilled and counter-sunk,
sometimes only 2 holes.
Hope this helps,
Dick

Yes, that sounds somewhat like the splicing plates I have.  I think the difference is that the ones I have were really designed for nails, not screws.  The small holes correspond to #6 wood screws and aren't countersunk.  Still, with #6 panhead screws they won't look bad at all per se.  I'm wondering about the strength of these plates, if, say, someone leans on the top rail.  Would that be enough leverage to bend the plates?  I can find out about this through experimentation.  I'll check the hardware store again, though, to see if there's something with thicker gauge and larger holes.

Thanks,

[AlanMintaka]

Just sit the extra boards on top of the other with the dowell pins already installed and trace the outline of the dowells on the new boards and drill out , glue and you are done.

The trick would be to get the holes vertical, or at least close enough so that the top rails aren't visibly bowed anywhere.  I don't have a drill press, otherwise I'd jump on this dowel idea. 

Still, if the dowels were short enough, small errors off the vertical wouldn't be that important.  What length of dowels are we talking about for a job like this?  Would 1" into each board be enough for a 1/4" dowel, or maybe shallower holes with thicker dowels? 

Thanks,

[CG04]

Big Al,

Seems to me that you need to use bisquits.  You can get a pretty inexpensive bisquit cutter at Lowe's or Home Depot and they will show you how to use it.  I can do it and I'm not real good at carpentering either.

Clif

[mabloodhound]

I'd be using biscuits, but I do have all the tools to do this.   Biscuits can be done with a router also.
Dowels can be tricky to align but certainly 1" deep would more than suffice.   You can get dowel 'points' that you insert into the first board that is drilled and the points will make a mark on the second board when they are put together.   Then use these marks to drill the holes in the second board.   The 'points' are fairly cheap.
Do use yellow glue on the edges for additional strength

[orangeman]

If using dowels, get a self-centering dowling jig. Another excuse to get another tool.

Just google it as there are several suppliers. Don't go for the cheap plastic  one tho.

[AlanMintaka]

Good ideas, all.  I have an update that might be relevant.  This evening I attached two of the rails edge to edge using large C-clamps, just to see how things lined up - or how they didn't in this case.

First unpleasant surprise: the rails to be joined don't have the same thickness.  The lumber is all supposed to be 5/4", but the rails I'm going to add on top are about 1/16" thinner than the bottom rails.  Only one side of the rails can be flush.  So far I'm opting for the outside of the rails because it looks better; but then there's a 1/16" shelf on the inside of the rails.  If I join them using flat splice plates, I'll have to shim the tops of the plates with washers or other flat pieces of metal.  The alternative is to flush the rails on the inside.  Then I'll have no problems with flat splice plates.  Unfortunately the outside of the rails will then look pretty crappy.

Second unpleasant surprise: the top rails are warped and/or bowed just enough to make joining them flush a royal pain in the petard.  When I looked at them in the lumber yard they didn't look bowed too badly by eye.  I guess I just plain missed it.

The boards can be worked and bent into position - I discovered this using the C-clamps.  However getting an accurate fit with dowels or biscuits would be next to impossible for me. 

I'll have to attach them after they've been clamped together and forced to be flush.  I'm either going to drill down through the boards on edge and use really long wood screws, or shim the tops of the splice plates and attach the plates to the backs of the rails.

Oh yeah, I'll still be able to use yellow glue because I can work the boards into position while the glue is still wet.  But I'll have to screw or splice them after that because I doubt the glue alone would do the job with these boards. 

I'll screw the corners together in the usual way - across the grain for one board, along the grain for the other.

Plus this method is doable for me.  After looking at some of the online articles about dowel and biscuit joints I concluded that I don't have the right equipment and/or expertise to join the rails that way.  Also I have to keep the cost down as much as possible.  The screws I already have: #8, 3-1/2".  I can countersink them to get them into the bottom board by at least an inch.  Flush or mushroom caps can be used to fill the holes later. 

The only thing I'd have to buy doing everything this way is a longer 1/8" bit for the pilot hole.  That much I can afford at this point.

Thanks once again to all for the neat ideas.

Have a good one,

[CG04]

Big Al,

By no means am I a master carpenter.  I cannot remember ever getting a perfectly straight piece of lumber.  Seems we always have to figure a way to make it work.  You will find the way that works best for you.  I brought up the bisquits because I saw it on the New Yankee Workshop years ago and decided I just couldn't live without it.  I have used it ever since.  Good luck on your project.

Clif

[AlanMintaka]

Big Al,
By no means am I a master carpenter.  I cannot remember ever getting a perfectly straight piece of lumber.  Seems we always have to figure a way to make it work.  You will find the way that works best for you.  I brought up the bisquits because I saw it on the New Yankee Workshop years ago and decided I just couldn't live without it.  I have used it ever since.  Good luck on your project.
Clif

Ah, to have Norm Abramson's equipment.  Laser-guided rotary saws and lathes, every type of clamp that was ever invented, dado cutters, dowel jigs, biscuit cutters....

I could actually do some of this stuff with his tools. 

I live in southern NH and see Norm Abramson on occasion in places like Staples, Home Depot, etc.   He wouldn't know me from jack of course, and I never bother him.  Mostly I'm interested to see what he could possibly be buying at Home Depot.  It's always small stuff.  With his PBS expense account, he probably buys the "real" stuff from distributers.

Now that I've heard all the ideas on this forum, I will be practicing with biscuits and dowels for the smaller things in this layout.  I have tons of scrap lumber.  Joining boards this way will give me wider flat pieces I don't have.  Nice!

Have a good one,

[CG04]

Big Al,

Norm would have used his handy plainer (sp?) to get the boards the same size.
I was always amazed that you never saw him change blades or bits or screw driver sizes.  No telling how many tools he had a set up to do the job and someone to hand them to him as he worked.

I suppose we are getting a little off base here.

Good luck again,

Clif

[Jhanecker2]

A doweljig would allow you to install dowel holes in proper relation to one another & all you need is an electrical drill to drive the drill bit  .  I do it that way most of the time to make wider panels , yellow wood glue is my adhesive of choice . John II