Pulling a 4% grade

[jblasingame]

What are the best HO engines for pulling a 4% grade with a reasonable number of cards?

[ABC]

Speaking in generalities... when it comes to HO locomotives...diesel (and electric) tends to be able to pull more than steam...additionally, the more expensive the locomotive the better it will run or be able to pull except if you are paying more because of increased detailing such as for a brass model or something similar. The best answer is to avoid 4% grades as that exponentially decreases the pulling power and if you add in a curve on the grade and that cuts it down even more.
But I have several Atlas AC&Y FM H15/16-44s that are good units and pull well when I sextuple head them, they pull over 200 free rolling cars that are close to NMRA specs up almost a 4% grade.

[NWsteam]

I would have to agree with ABC. If you are in the planning stages change your grade to something else! Lower is much better. That being said I do have a 4% grade on my layout and regret it very much. It's even worse in the fact that it has sharp curves (22 radius). My Bachmann DCC ready N&W J will pull two Bachmann heavyweights up that grade. This is with weight/decoder added and you must build up some steam before tackling the grade. My Bachmann shay has trouble taking more than 5 cars up the steep climb. Even if you have some scenery done I would suggest going back and changing it. That's what I am in the process of doing.

-Brad

[pdlethbridge]

  There was a time when real rail-roads had 4% grades or greater. The most famous of them was closed a few years back down south, Saluda. Read this article for more info.
http://www.saludarealty.net/articles.php
They had 611 make a run up the hill with a few cars but he stalled but got it going again with lots of smoke, spinning tires, sand and a cheering crowd. The major problem with the grade was not in going up, but in coming down. They had switch tracks at a couple of locations to catch runaways. It was finally deemed too risky to operate.
Model trains don't have 2 or 3 mile grades, so runaways aren't a risk, but the steeper the grade the less the loco will pull. Doubling the length of the grade will help tremendously. By keeping the grade at 1% or 1 1/2%, your engines will run and look better climbing the hill.
That would be 1" per 100"s or 1 1/2" per 100"s

[Nigel]

What are the best HO engines for pulling a 4% grade with a reasonable number of cards?

The old Athearn blue box diesels, with sintered iron wheels, and LOTS of added weight.  They have other issues like noisy, not smooth runners, poor detailing, high starting speed, and dirtying up the track.  But you can't beat those sintered iron wheels for traction.

Oh, and by the way, I would not allow one on my railroad.

[jward]

i have a 4% grade with 18" radius curves. these are my best pullers.

model power metal train f7a.
atlas trainman rs36
atlas s4.

these 3 will each pull at least 6 cars on the grade, and each cost under $100.

the worst puller was also the most expensive. i have a broadway limited sw7 which has very little pulling power, in stark contrast to the atlas s4 which is similar in size.

[ABC]

the worst puller was also the most expensive. i have a broadway limited sw7 which has very little pulling power, in stark contrast to the atlas s4 which is similar in size.

Would you say the detail on the BLI SW7 is better than the Atlas S4? If so then it follows what I was saying about paying for nicer detailing.

[jward]

that would depend on whether you are a model railroader or a railroad modeller. detail doesn't matter as much as performance when you've got a railroad to run.....

[Santa Fe buff]

Ah, a case of detail and actual power. Usually, you go with detail, but if your going for long trains and grades, detail might suffer over a better engine. I think Walther's makes a great engine in there locomotives, same with Atlas, but Bachmann is always good as well.

Usually, Crazy-motives (As I call them) are those very cheap locomotives made by Life-Like from Walthers or Model Power that have those little cheapy motors in them that go some 200mph scale! I think we had a Model Power F7 hit near 250... until the camera on the train rolled. I'm going to have to get that footage out on YouTube to show you guys sometime.

Cheers,
Joshua

EDIT: Darn you jward!  You got it out my point first! Hehe.

[ebtbob]

In all this discussion of pulling up grades,  especially one as steep as 4%,  let us not forget that free rolling cars will  play a great part in an engine or engines ability to pull the grade.

[Santa Fe buff]

Yes, we cannot forget the rolling ease will allow either more cars or less. Metal wheels are a great improvement, allowing great smoothness.

So, if your going to have 4% grades, remember to get some metal wheelsets.

Cheers,
Joshua

[jward]

regarding the model power metal train, don't confuse this with the usual model power cheapie stuff. this one seems to run comparable with a stewart f7 2 or more times its price. it is a very smooth runner, and with that cast metal body it weighs a ton. but it will pull the paint off the walls. for all you old heads out there, think along the lines of a hobbytown rs3 or a locomotive with a cary body....

yeah i've had my share of cheapies over the years. i expect them to run fast and not be able to get a smooth start. one thing you can do is bury them in a line in the middle of your yard, as stored power. things like lack of detail or poor performance aren't noticeable there.

as for the athearns with the sintered metal wheels. i agree they do pull well. but they are very poor performers on dcc. sintered wheels pick up alot of dirt, it isn't an issue issue on dc, but on dcc you can't keep them clean enough to run well.....before i converted, they were the backbone of my fleet, geared down with ernst gears with a top speed of about 40mph. some ran for about 30 years before i pulled them off the line.

[Santa Fe buff]

Huh, I'll have to take a look into those...Hehehe...

Cheers,
Joshua

[jbsmith]

it also depends on this,,,if you have DCC you can consist a number of locos up together,,double,triple,quad or whatever have you, just like the Real RRs
do in mountainous areas.
Think about it. How often do you ever see a real train with just ONE loco anyways? But that is another story.

Could also possibly be done in DC if all run about the same speed give or take a wee little bit and have good couplers.

It also pedends somewhat on your definition of "reasonable number of cards" 
Cards? like a full deck?   hee hee hee...i know you meant  "cars",,,
12?  24?  100?

[BaltoOhioRRfan]

When i build my layout, I may have a 4% grade on it. But the trains will be limited to 2 cars, 3 max. and will be reserved for Shays pulling bachmann Excursion cars. Depending if NWSL puts a gear fix out. the Climax's are not going to go that far on the Tourist route.


Rest of my layout, probably be flat but i'll give it an appearnce of having grades. I'm using Mostly steam so grades are my arch rival.