American 4-4-0 "Levithan" in Nscale

[rack776]

Hi, I recently purchased an N scale 4-4-0 "jupiter"  and some cars
and I am really excited to try a small layout for my 1860's-1880's type engines.

While doing some research I came across a photo of an engine that was finished
last year It is a replica of an American 4-4-0 Named "Leviathan" it is from Chicago
http://web.mac.com/vtlyon/iWeb/The%20Leviathan/Leviathan%20.html
Check the Link for info on this engine it is awesome.

From what I have read it is more or less a duplicate of the "Jupiter" engine
on display in Utah an the Golden Spike Site.

My question is - Does anyone at Bachmann know if there are plans to release
an N scale version of this engine? it would be real simple to update the existing
"Jupiter " engine with a different paint job,   If it is something Bachmann would
eventually produce I would buy one, otherwise I'll look into getting new decals
made up for to turn a "Jupiter" into a "Leviathan"

Who would I write to at Bachmann to express my interest in a "Leviathan" 4-4-0?
And also the availability of buying additional "old timer" cars seperate from the train sets.

Anyone else have any links or places to get info on 19th century Model Railroading in N?

[ABC]

The old time Bachmann passenger cars are readily available on ebay and from vendors at train shows.
Here's a link to an ebay auction for them.
http://cgi.ebay.com/BACHMANN-2-CENTRAL-PACIFIC-OLD-TIME-PASSENGER-CARS_W0QQitemZ380200935911QQcmdZViewItemQQptZModel_RR_Trains?hash=item5885bde1e7

[brokemoto]

I am rapidly becoming a nineteenth century modeller.  It started with me when MDC issued its 1880s 2-8-0 some years back.  A second event was seeing a heavily re-worked B-mann eight wheeler at a Disney display at the World's Greatest Hobby on Tour Show.  The final straw was the realisation that now that I have a house, it is time to take down the 1950s pike that has survived moves to several apartments and build a better pike. 

So, once this pike gets all of its buildings and roads in place, down will come the larger pike and this nineteenth century pike on a two by four foot piece of plywood will be the only opertaing of trains that I will do while I re-do the 1950s pike.

I have a few of these Bachmann eight wheelers.  If you read about them in various model railroad forums, they are almost universally trashed.  The reality is that they are not as bad as everyone would have you believe.  Still, a few things about them:

1.  They do not like plastic frog switches.  This is not a design flaw, this is not a quality control problem, it is just a characteristic of short wheelbase N scale power.  No amount of quality control or design ingenuity will  make plastic conduct electricity.  Thus, you must use metal frog switches.  I do not know if Bachpersonn sells those, but PECO and Shinohara do.  I am no fan of Shinohara turnouts, but the Peco are very good.  One of the good things about nineteenth century equipment is that it is small, so it is tolerant of sharp curves and turnouts.  You can use the Peco 'snap track' turnout:  it comes in a package that looks like a large match book.  One thing, though, you must wire metal frog turnouts properly.  Pick up any book on wiring a model railroad.  The advent of DCC has made much of this information dated, but some of the nineteenth century power is too small for many people to install  a decoder.  It has been done, but you really need proper tools and to know what you are doing.

2.  The Bachmann eight wheeler requires a VERY LONG break-in period.  You must spend hours running it in both directions and at various speeds.  If you will spend the time to break it in, you will be amazed at its performance.  Do not think that because you do not plan to operate it in reverse, or only rarely in reverse, that you need not run it in reverse during break in.  You must run it in both directions, and with this model, you must spend hours doing it.

3.  The performance of this locomotive varies wildly model to model.  The GF has one that will pull twenty nineteenth century cars, of various type and manufacture, on Micro-Trains or AccuMate trucks, up a one per cent grade at a steady twenty five SMPH.  I have one that will barely get out of its own way.  Most of mine run in the twenty to thirty SMPH range without cogging, but I do have one that will operate steadily at ten SMPH.  Most of them will pull from five to seven nineteenth century cars up a one per cent grade at thirty SMPH.  The prototypes generally operated at speeds from twenty five to forty MPH.

4.  You do not state which one of these that you have.  Did you get it in a set?  Did it come separately in a plastic or cardboard box?  Are the ends on the driveshaft octagonal (or does it have only six sides?--I forget now) in shape and sitting over the ends on the tender and locomotive, or, does the driveshaft have rounded ends with nubs that fit into slots on the locomotive and tender.  If it is the former, you have an older model and it is the source of most of the complaints about this locomotive.  The version that I have that can barely get out of its own way is one with the polygonal ends on the driveshaft.  The later versions are better.  The best of these are those that come in the plastic box, although the one that I have that will hold a steady ten SMPH did come in a cardboard box.

Most of the people who complain about these do not spend the time to break them in and run them on pikes with plastic frog switches.  Do not expect to operate long trains.  The small size of these things precludes their having much pulling power.

Product availability for this era is limited. 

B-mann does have the 1850s-1870s  eight wheeler and the caboose,  two body styles of passenger cars and four freight, although two of the freight body styles involve additions to the flat car. 

Athearn sells two 1880s locomotives, two body styles of freight cars (box and refrigerator), thirty four foot passenger cars in four body styles, fifty foot passenger cars in four body styles and a caboose.  The Athearn products are copies of the old MDC/Roundhouse designs, so if you see those at shows, they are good, as well.  Athearn did make some improvements to the rolling stock by adding trucks with knuckle couplers that function properly and adding Microtrains couplers fore and aft to the locomotives.

Atlas sells an 1870s 2-6-0 manufactured under licence from MicroAce.  The prototype is a Japanese 2-6-0 that an American builder shipped over there, so it is passable for a US prototype locomotive.  Many of the locomotive designs between the 1840s and 1870s were generic.  The railroads picked them out of a catalogue and ordered as many as they could pay for or for as many as they could get financing.  It took until the 1880s for many roads to start ordering locomotives built to their desires and needs.  Some roads even built their own (N&W).  Some roads built some of their own (B&O, SP, PRR) and ordered from the builders, as well.  PRR would find a design that it liked and have Baldwin build some while Juniata built more of the same design.

There are some kits out there and some brass power as well.  For buildings, there are some kits and built ups from the manufacturers, but I have found that you get more authentic kits by going to vendors that are popular with the narrow gauge boys.  Most of those are wood kits that require various levels of skill.

[rack776]

Thanks for the replys!
I love my engine and have no complaints so far
I got my 4-4-0 in the Frontiersman train set, it has the newer
drive shaft, it is a very smooth runner. I was going to pick up
a used one for cheap but I decided to go with a brand new one,
I'm glad I did as I heard the older ones can be hit or miss.

I did not have any problem with stalling thru atlas code 80 turn outs
It does however tend to derail because of poor clearance near the
switch lever, no big deal. I can get better peco turn outs in the future.

As far as performance with long trains or steep grades
I'm not too worried as the prototype had the sam troubles LOL!

Mine is VERY smooth with only a 1-2 hours of run time,
the longer it "warms up" the slower I can  run it,
I think the "trick" is to let the motor brushes wear or form
to the shape of the comuntator for better electrical contact.

What is the recomended lube for the gears, the instructions only
say to ask at the hobby shop fo what to use.

I plan on getting a few more of these engines and I am in the middle
of building a simple 3x4 layout with 2 tracks, no grades or switches
just to run them on to break them in and for practice in layout building.
I have some simple card stock buildings for now and I plan on scratch
building most structures, Horses are easy to get  its just the period
dressed figures & stage coaches that look tough to find.

I'll keep every one updated & thanks!

[ABC]

Bachmann E-Z lube light gear oil will work well for the gears. Or the equivalent in Labelle or other manufacturer's so long as it is plastic compatible light gear lubricant.

[brokemoto]

Preiser sells horsies, Woodland Scenics sells horsies and I forget if it is Model Power or B-mann that also sells them (listed priciest to least expensive).  There are some etched brass kits out there  that are a bit pricey.  I have never bought one or tried to put one together.  Some of those kits also have brass horses to go with the waggons.  If you can find the wheels, it is possible to scratch build or bash the waggons.  There are one or two manufacturers that do sell N scale waggon wheels, it is just not that simple to find them.  I am in the process of scratch bashing a horse drawn steam pumper.

Try running that eight wheeler at something less than thirty five SMPH and you will see it stall on a plastic frog switch.  The Atlas mogul is really finicky about plastic frog switches and even straight and level.  The Atlas is a smoother runner , but the B-mann is the more reliable runner.  The Athearn/MDC are the best of the mass produced bunch.

Model Power sells an eight wheeler and a mogul, as well, but those are based on prototypes from the VERY late 1890s to the early 1900s...

When it comes to lubrication, ONE SMALL drop is sufficient.  The only thing that excess lubrication does is attract dirt.  Dirt is enemy numero uno of N scale power, especially very small N scale power.

I like the  LaBelle teflon grease; it comes in a tube.

[brokemoto]

On the outside track (next to station):

Atlas 2-6-0 Virginia & Truckee Tahoe
Athearn 34' boxcar Strasburg Railroad
Micro Trains 40' refrigerator Gerber Foods
Bachmann gondola with coal load (I forget who made the load)
Flat car with crate of unknown manufacture
MDC combine 'UP photographer's car'
MDC V&T caboose

On the inside track:

Bachpersonn 4-4-0, PRR #566
Four Athearn PRR  34' wood passenger cars

In front of the water tower;

MDC 2-8-0, PRR
Three Athearn fifty foot wood passenger cars Strasburg Railroad.

There is also a MDC 34' V&T box car sitting on a spur.

..............just to give rack776 an idea of what is out there for nineteenth century N scale equipment.

[rack776]

Thanks for the Lube info & the Photos!
-Looks like all the N scale stuff on my wish list all in one photo!

I have a walthers catalog and saw the Photo Etched wagon kits
They look alittle expensive for what you actually get,
If I can easilly scracth build wagon wheels I think I could
build a better wagon pretty easily out of wood & wire.

I might try to make a few different size wheels & cast them in resin for
ease of duplicating, Once I get the trains running I'll concentrate on scenery.

I have a goofy Idea of putting two "new to be delivered " stage coaches
on one of the flat cars I have.....Would kinda be like
an "early intermodal/piggy back" type thing LOL!

[Riley]

Brokemoto, would you please re-send the picture for your previous reply.

Also 'smokeymountainminiatures' have several n-scale horse drawn wagons, etc.

[brokemoto]

Riley,

I put up a different photograph, as I took the original off the hosting site.  Unlike some fora, which will record the photograph once it is posted, this one does not.  The equipment is the same, you just can not see the old MDC UP Photographers' Car combine.  You can see the Cincinnati, Hamilton and Dayton 'Standard Wagons' billboard boxcar, though.  That one is an old MDC shake of the box kit.