Early 4-4-0 locomotives

[Southern Railway]

Bach mann, don't you think it's time to re-engineer your 19th century 4-4-0 locomotives. I am a modeler who loves all eras of railroading and am sad to see the early 4-4-0 has not been updated. In my opinion, it's time to bring such an important icon of railroading to the Spectrum line! If nothing more than running the C.P. Jupiter and the U.P. 119 in a special run only Spectrum DCC w/Sound packaged together. The technology is there...to take the motor out of the tender and bring it to scale...making an accurate representation of these famous locos. I have one of your Spectrum 45-ton switching locomotives and if you can power such a fine running and accurate looking engine of that size, it is sure to work for the early 4-4-0.

[hminky]

They probably make more selling the "antiquated" model at it's current price now. It fits a niche market of "toy" train people wanting a "wild west" locomotive. They would have to make a whole new model and sell it at three times the price.  There isn't a big enough market in nineteenth century anything.

Obviously enough people are interested in the current model to justify making new road names. Why should Bachmann invest in a new 4-4-0 if they can make money with old tooling? It is a business.

I know the "ten" people interested in nineteenth century modeling will object.

Harold

[pipefitter]

I'm not one of the "ten"  but as a former eBay addict I note that whenever an early 4-4-0 loco is up for auction, it always attracts lots of bids, no matter the quality or condition of the model. That always makes me glad I already have two (which is plenty, thank you). My railroad is primarily the end of steam through the 70's. However, after a trip to Atlanta and seeing the actual W&ARR General I bought Mantua's high quality model (which is now a collector's item). Later on eBay got for a pittance, an IHC model of B&O's William Mason. The model was missing a sand dome and bell, which have since been replaced. These are both beautiful, quiet, smooth running engines. They have appropriate Mantua, AHM and Roundhouse cars and I enjoy running their trains from time to time. Cheers, Robert

http://wd4eui.com/Pictures/General_Loco.jpg
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/bomuseum/bo25-2.jpg

[Heave]

I must say the Mason looks very good. The entire facility looks really good. Last time I saw pictures was after the President Day Collapse and it was nothing but rubble.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

I must say the Mason looks very good. The entire facility looks really good. Last time I saw pictures was after the President Day Collapse and it was nothing but rubble.

She sure does!

Shortly after the roof collapse I contacted the museum, and even with all that was going on at the time, they were kind enough to write back and assure me that the "Mason" was unscathed. I was told she had been off the property at the time for filming a TV commercial for the anniversary celebration that had been planned for that summer but then had to be cancelled because of the roof collapse.

[pipefitter]

I must say the Mason looks very good ...

... I was told she had been off the property at the time for filming a TV commercial for the anniversary celebration that had been planned for that summer but then had to be cancelled because of the roof collapse.

The first time I saw the Mason, I was struck how "modern" and streamlined she appears compared to her contemporaries. A really beautifuly designed locomotive. The new paint looks good, imagine it must be more historically correct as is the practice now days. The last time I saw her she was in the gray and wine red scheme as is my lovely IHC model. Cheers, Robert
(B&O Museum, 4th picture down) http://www.thejoekorner.com/photos/b-orr/index.html

[ebtnut]

The green paint on the Mason was applied when the loco was sent out west for the filming of the Will Smith movie "The Wild, Wild West".  I suspect that the previous scheme with the wine red cab and tender may be closer to prototype.  It is also likely that the boiler wrapper sheets originally were Russian Iron, and not just grey paint.  IIRC, the loco got a new boiler when it was refurbished for the Fair of the Iron Horse in 1927. 

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

The first time I saw the Mason, I was struck how "modern" and streamlined she appears compared to her contemporaries. A really beautifuly designed locomotive. The new paint looks good, imagine it must be more historically correct as is the practice now days. The last time I saw her she was in the gray and wine red scheme as is my lovely IHC model. Cheers, Robert
(B&O Museum, 4th picture down) http://www.thejoekorner.com/photos/b-orr/index.html

Her builder, William Mason, wasn't just a locomotive builder. He was an artist. Abdill's book on Civil War railroads includes photos of Mason locomotives that actually had their driving wheel counterbalances mounted on the inside of the wheels so they wouldn't spoil the radial symmetry of the wheels.

Yessir, in the years immediately preceding and following 1860, the Mason works turned out some beautiful, elegant locomotives.

[CNE Runner]

As a few of you know, my wife and I are vendors at several model railroad shows across the South. We handle a variety of items - many on consignment - ranging from N-scale through (and including) some G-scale. After being in the business for some time, one learns which items are 'hot sellers' and which are 'table queens'. The older Bachmann/Rivarossi/AHM/Pocher items are definitely 'hot sellers'. I have gone to a show with 4 or 5 Bachmann 4-4-0s and left with none. There definitely is a market for this genre of railroading.

My last layout (the Newburgh, Dutchess & Connecticut RR) was sited in the latter part of the 19th century (1895-ish to be exact) and aped an actual railroad of that time. The older 4-4-0 versions (Rogers, Baldwin, Schenectady, Grant, Danforth, etc) had all been retired by this time; to be replaced with new locomotives. My only recourse was to purchase a Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0. These are excellent locomotives that run like a dream...I was so impressed that I purchased a second unit. Unfortunately they are from a maker (Richmond) that did not directly supply the N.D.& C.; and they represent a locomotive of the early 20th century. Somewhere in the forum archives is a thread from a talented gentleman who 'back dated' his Bachmann...unfortunately I do not possess either the skill nor desire to do so...hence I 'fiddle' with history.

In summary let me say that there certainly is a market for an upgraded Bachmann [et al] 4-4-0 (or Mogul for that matter). The 19th century isn't called the 'Golden Age of Railroading' for nothing.

Regards,
Ray

PS: An absolutely essential resource to own is George B. Abdill's A Locomotive Engineer's Album. Superior Publishing Co. (1965). This book contains a plethora of beautiful machines.

[Terry Toenges]

I highly recommend all of Abdill's books.

[rich1998]

I have been going to the Amherst Railway Society Railroad Hobby Show. show in west springfield Ma for some years and it is becoming increasingly difficult to find these locos and rolling stock for this era. and that show is huge. i really have to dig to find anything suitable. there is over 300,000 sq ft of space occupying four buildings.

I have a better chance of finding this stuff on the 'net.

lex

[ebtnut]

While Richmond may not have built locos for the ND&C, the Spectrum model with the wood cab and slide valves is very typical of the 4-4-0's built from about 1890 to about 1910.  The actual Ma and Pa locos were built in 1901 and were likely an "off-the-shelf" design that Richmond had been building for a number of years.  Take a look at some of the B&O Americans from the 1890's (Class M's) here:  http://www.northeast.railfan.net/bo_steam1.html

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

While Richmond may not have built locos for the ND&C, the Spectrum model with the wood cab and slide valves is very typical of the 4-4-0's built from about 1890 to about 1910.  The actual Ma and Pa locos were built in 1901 and were likely an "off-the-shelf" design that Richmond had been building for a number of years.  Take a look at some of the B&O Americans from the 1890's (Class M's) here:  http://www.northeast.railfan.net/bo_steam1.html

I suspect this is correct, but I think I also understand what Ray is saying. If you want to model a short line in the mid-1890s, unless it's a very prosperous or new short line, you probably want to be running engines that were built in the 1880s or perhaps even in the later 1870s. I love my Spectrum Richmond, but perhaps its a tad too modern for 1880? And the Bachmann "Jupiter" and "119" are, of course, mid-1860s engines.

[rich1998]

Below is what i have for 1890. yes there are oil headlights and generator. my story, ok my railroad, the road is experimenting carbon arc lighting and using the old headlight enclosure. the carbon arc lamp installs started around that time i believe. incandescent headlights started around 1913 according to some research I did. The time line can vary a couple years depending on the source you quote. Good enough for me.
ho scale



Lex

Forgot to mention, this is not Bachmann

[CNE Runner]

I like both your 'story' and your locomotive Lex. Jeff, you hit my nail on the head. Oh well, with the Monks' Island Brewery, I only have to contend with one Plymouth WDT.

Ray