MORE 4-4-0 Jupiter questions

[DieCastoms]

Moderator, feel free to combine this with the other thread if that is more appropriate.

I have recently purchased a foam layout with all the track and a transformer, and a Jupiter, several cars, a bobber caboose, and an extra SanteFe War Bonnet that the seller says doesn't run very well.

Out of 6 cars, one has no trucks and one has two missing wheelsets.  The others seem complete enough but I did not check small details.  The caboose looked like it was in good condition.

The foam layout consists of a folded 8.  There are no trestles, just the foam and the track.  I do not remember if the one 'bridge' on the layout had any support or if itwas just a piece of track over the gap.

The war bonnet loco was clearly missing both traction tires, which very likely is the reason it did not run well.  It did look clean otherwise but I had no way to test anything while at the flea market.

According to the seller, the Jupiter runs well and will pull the cars he had.  When I looked more closely at the Jupiter, it looks to me like the tender wheels are a little pitted and one axle barely rolls..

I would like to 'restore' the 4-4-0.  I would like to replace the wheelsets and clean the engine up and get it running smoothly again.
  If I need replacement trucks or wheelsets, where can I get them?
  Is it worth trying to add wipers to the trucks using the Kadee coupler spring method elsewhere on the forums?
  If I do need to take apart the loco, is there anything I should be careful of?  Springs rocketing off or anything like that

With all that said, do you think I wasted $20 bucks?

looking forward to your answers,
Mike, from DC.

[brokemoto]

If you take off the tender trucks, be careful of the springs that make contact with a plate on the tender.  Thus, the MT/Kadee coupler springs probably will not help this one, as springs already transmit electric from the trucks to a contact plate, which transmits to the motor.  Also, take care not to lose the driveshaft when you separate locomotive and tender.

On the driveshaft:  does it have ball ends with nubs sticking out of the balls, or does it have hexagonal ends?  If the former, there is some hope; if the latter, you have your work cut out for you.

These eight wheelers have their problems, but with a little work, they are not all that bad, and you will be surprised what they can pull. 

You mention the tender wheels, which is one of the inherent design flaws.  Sometimes they are not put together properly with the result that the wheels will not turn.  Sometimes working them with your hands or tools (and be careful, there) will free them up, sometimes not.  I would shy from using LaBelle or similar oil, as the tender wheels provide the electrical contact and those lubricants will compromise it.  You might get away with using a conductive lubricant (Atlas sells one, and I suspect others do.  I do not know if B-mann sells one), but I have never worked with one.   If you try getting the parts from Bachpersonn, you might be allright, you might not.   Your best bet might be to go to  a train show and see if you can get a junk one cheap and cannibalise it (more on that later).  The thing about the tender wheels is that I would want to see them turn before I bought them.  If you are having problems with only one of the two trucks, I might be able to help you.  I will look in my parts box to see if I still have the spare tender.  I had to take off one of the trucks, but the other one might still be allright.  First, I must find the thing.

This locomotive requires extensive break in.  If you are willing to spend the time breaking it in, you can get it to hold a steady speed and it will not run all that badly .  The steady speed that it will hold varies wildly, model-to-model.  The GF has one that will hold a steady fifteen SMPH and pull twenty of the nineteenth century cars, of various manufacture, up a one per cent grade.  The prototype would have had a hard time with that.  I have one or two that will hold a steady twenty SMPH, but I also have on that I can only get to hold a steady thirty SMPH.   I also have one that can barely get out of its own way, but that is one of those hexagonal drive shaft jobs.   One thing that you will not get rid of  is the wobble, unless you are prepared to disassemble it completely and do extensive reworking to it.   One more thing.  Like all short wheelbase N scale power, this one does not like plastic frog switches.  If you do add some turnouts, use metal frog switches and wire appropriately.

Is the car that is missing the trucks a freight or passenger car?  Is it  a nineteenth century freight car?   If it is a nineteenth century freight car, I think that I have some Bachmann archbar trucks and wheelsets for it.  Does it still have the screws or truck pins?  I do not think that I have any of the B-mann nineteenth century passenger car trucks, but I will look.  I probably have some B-personn twentieth century freight car trucks, as well.  I will look.  I know that I have some of the Bachpersonn metal wheelsets.  Truthfully, your best bet is to go with MicroTrains or AccuMate trucks and couplers.  The MT archbar trucks will fit the B-mann nineteenth century freight cars.  You can retain the B-mann trucks on the passenger cars and use 1133s in the coupler boxes.  The locomotive is a bit more of a problem.  I use UniMates, Con-Cor or even an old MDC knuckle coupler.  All of those are compatible with MTs.

As for that F-unit, if you want an F-unit, buy a SPECTRUM F-7.  I am not the biggest fan of those, either, but if you are on a budget or are still in the curious stage, they will be allright.  If you really want a really better F-unit, the InterMountain or Kato is the way to go.  MT also sells FTs, which are pretty good.

Where in the Nation's Capital are you?  I live in Washington, as well.  There is a Greenberg show this weekend in Chantilly, Virginia, at the Dulles Expo Centre on Route 28 off I-66.   There is also a World's Greatest Hobby on Tour show coming up there as well as a major show at the Maryland State Fairgrounds coming up.

I am advising the show route to look for parts for two reasons:   1) you can see if the donor carcass has the part that you want and if the part is functional  2) the shipping rates for parts ain't exactly cheap.  If I want parts from B-mann, I wait until I have a long list so that I do not wind up paying three times the cost of the one part in shipping charges.

If you are interested in nineteenth century equipment, there is a limited amount of it out there.  Atlas sells an 1870s 2-6-0 made by MicroAce in various road names.  MDC sold, and Athearn sells 1880s 2-8-0s and 2-6-0s, also in various road names.  MDC sold, and Athearn sells, two kinds of wood passenger cars and numerous wood box type nineteenth century cars.  MT also has a thirty four foot refrigerator amoung its selection of body styles.

The Athearn nineteenth century equipment is basically copies of the MDC equipment.  The locomotives are excellent.

Did you waste the twenty  bananas?  Probably not.

If you have more questions, send me an e-Mail.  There is a way to do that through this forum.

[DieCastoms]

I do not yet have possession of the set.  I put it on layaway at a fleamarket because the ATM was being a pain and wouldn't let me have my own money.  The train was part of a larger deal, including a Craftsman table-size band saw.  the prices were $25 for the saw and $30 for the set and the seller dropped to $40 for both, $20 each.

I was not aware about the loco having a drive shaft until I started reading the forums here.  I did not look THAT closely at the loco at the fleamarket, and honestly took the seller's word that it ran, I did not see it run.  I felt at the time that I would have paid the $20 clams for the foam layout bed and the track and transformer and if the trains ran, they would be a bonus.  A few months ago I was given a Roundhouse 2-6-0 with a TCS T1 decoder installed and began trading my N scale for HO scale.  Now I am buying into N scale again, so not sure where I am going ;P

I did notice that at least one wheelset on the tender did not roll smoothly in my fingers..  could be gunk, could be mechanical, I couldn't exactly dismantle it in front of the guy.  I was not aware that ALL the electrical pickup is from the tender only.  I will know more next week after I pick the set up.  My shoestring budget is HORRIBLY short right now, so don't worry too much about checking for parts, though I certainly appreciate the offer!

If you look in the product section here on the B-mann site for the frontiersman set, I believe those are the cars that I am getting.  I won't swear to it.  There are 4 or 5 that rolled well when I put them on the track and that's enough for me to get started.  I would eventually like to have some old wooden passenger cars, but that's later.

as for the F unit, it will make a good paperweight if nothing else   I can't really afford to buy anything right now, not even the set we are talking about so I'm not overly concerned about it.  I have a B-Mann Spectrum F7 A/B powered set that I paid $18 for used and was TOLD it was a good runner.  When I got it, it has cracked gears and will barely move.  It's a shame because they seem like very clean, well cared for units.  Here is a shot from one of those $5 keychain cameras:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/Valkyn/mikes/Picture002.jpg


You are a bit mistaken, and I have been thinking of changing my tagline..  I am not in the district of Columbia, I am Mike from DieCastoms.  I once had a 'business' buying stock "hotwheels" and "matchbox" cars and modifying them to look like the cars at a local weekly car show.  My business was custom diecasts..  diecast customs... dieCASToms.... DieCastoms.......  I still use the name for my hobbies.

As for what equipment I am interested in..  again, I would like to have some passanger cars eventually..  "Overtons" I think they are called, but that is in the distant future unless I get another deal I cannot refuse (like having traded a Lifelike GP38 in N scale for a GP40 with DCC and a MOW set in HO scale, or trading a single, hand-made wooden flat car (my first ever) for the roundhouse 4-6-0 with decoder).

Thank you very much for your reply, it is most appreciated and welcoming!

I will post more about this set once I have it in my possession next week.

Once again,
Mike from Diecastoms

[brokemoto]

Are those F-7s PLUS or SPECTRUM?  I have never heard of the SPECTRUMs' showing cracked gear problems, but it was the rule with the PLUS.  This is one thing that led Bachpersonn to re-do them, from what I understand. Northwest Short Line sells a set of metal geared axles for the PLUS, but I do not know if they ever helped these things.  I have asked on numerous forums over the years and have never gotten an answer.  My understanding is that if you send the PLUS back to Bachmann with the fifteen dollars, or whatever it is, they will replace them with SPECTRUM.  I have four pairs of the PLUS sitting at home, all with cracked gears, it is just that I am unwilling to pay one hundred twenty  dollars plus postage/UPS to replace all eight units.  I would be unwilling to pay half that.

The Overtons are the thirty four foot passenger cars.  They are based on Sierra Railroad coaches and combines.  In fact, the Sierra Railroad combine ran on the Petticoat Junction train.  MDC sold and Athearn still sells Overland cars, which are the fifty foot wood passenger cars.  The Athearns come with truck mounted Accumates.  You must body mount 1023s on the MDCs.  After you do that, you can cut the coupler extension from the MDC trucks and retain them.

I find that the thirty four foot passenger cars look best with both the B-mann eight wheeler and the Atlas/MicroAce mogul.  I have yet to try to lower the B-mann passenger cars; it appears that they do sit a bit too high on their trucks.  One problem that has plagued N scale freight cars, and, some passenger cars,  for years is that they appear to be on stilts, even the MTs.  I suspect that the use of the so-called 'pizza cutter' wheels contributed to this, to some degree.  Still, Atlas managed to address the 'stilts' problem when it issued its wood boxcars.  Still, I do suspect that lowering the Bachpersonn wood passenger cars will improve their appearance.

[NYC1956]

Regarding the split gears on the PLUS F-7:
Before the SPECTRUM and Intermountain F-7s became available, I bought the PLUS F-7s and replaced the cracked gears with NWSL wheelsets. While that restored them to operation, I would not recommend that approach.

The NWSL gears are expensive and the PLUS F-7s draw high current and do not run well. It does not make economic sense.

Some people say they have been able to repair the cracked gears. They do this by removing the gears, glueing the crack while the crack is squeezed closed, then reaming the hole slightly for a snug fit to the shaft. (The gears shrink on the axle causing the split, so the hole is undersized when you glue the crack shut)

Maybe this will help.

[SFREAK]

Hi Mike,
Since I build in US - N - gauge
I found a NetSite :
http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/trainstuff.html
Just read, look and learn - I save much money with this  webwork
- a special tip from me:
if you disample a model  - don't forget :
YOU must it sample again - don't loose parts
and  no mother's, no wife's,  no pets and "absolutely" no children's !!! Happy New Year to all !!!

[DieCastoms]

Thank you friends for your replies and generous offers of help.

Unfortunately, upon returning to the Flea Market today to get my train off of lay way, I was informed that someone else offered twice as much and my deposit was returned to me.

Oh well.

I have no other N stuff, so am going to stick with HO.  See my other post in the HO forum if interested.

Mike, from DieCastoms.