Adhesives for Kit assembly

[Flyer]

In the next few months I plan to assemble quite a few freight car kits and need recommendations on the proper adhesives for PLASTIC as well as METAL parts.

[ebtnut]

For plastic to plastic, I like to use Tenax solvent.  It's a lot faster setting than the Testors.  I also keep a bottle of Plastruct cement handy, since some of their plastics are ABS, not styrene, and the other solvents won't work with them.  For plastic to metal and metal to metal, you should have both gap-filling ACC and 5-minute epoxy handy.  The ACC will do fine for assembling parts that won't be under any stress.  The ACC sets in seconds, so it is best where you can assemble the parts and then apply the glue to the joint.  For situations where there may be some stress, the epoxy is the better choice.  Make sure that the surfaces are clean and oil-free.  Also, the epoxy gives you a bit of working time, so you can apply it to one part then set the other part in place.  While it stiffens up fairly quickly, the epoxy bond really wants several hours to set completely. 

[Robertj668]

Flyer
OK I give up. What is ACC. I have heard it and cannot figure out what type of adhesive it is.
Robert

[pdlethbridge]

Robert, just ask for super glue. There are many brands. I use a variaty, Ambroid proweld, testors cement, tenex. I also have a selection of wood glues and epoxies.

[Robertj668]

pdlethbridge
Looks like we are both up early.

I use for my plastic and and wood kits a type of Super glue called "Loctite" Super Glue. I use different varieties of them from the fast setting, to the 5 minute set and the one for wood.  My favorite is Control gel. I get it at Lowes or Home Depot it is about 3 buck  and I usually use one .14oz per model.  They are great.  But I have to be carefull not to get it on my hand as they stick together and even worse if I have any on the hand and then touch the model.  Man then I have a finger print.

I occasionally use "Plastruct" from time to time.

I guess I was using an "ACC" glue all along.

Robert

PS what does Pdletbridge stand for?  Peddle Bridge?

[pdlethbridge]

paul donald lethbridge. Yes I'm up early too

[full maxx]

not sure if by acc glue you mean ca glue cyanoacrylate which is super glue

[Jim Banner]

I see there is some confusion over the initials used for super glue.  The original Eastman 910 was referred to as Alpha-Cyanoacrylic Cement abbreviated as ACC.  The alpha just means it is the first in the series of cyanoacrylates, also known as methyl-cyanoacrylate.  There are also ethyl-cyanoacrylates, butyl-cyanoacrylates, etc.

A more generic term is CyanoAcrylate, abbreviated CA.  This term does not specify which of the cyanoacrylates is included, but often it is a mixture.  Today the super glue sold to the public is mostly the weaker ethyl-cyanoacrylate with maybe a hint of methyl-cyanoacrylate thrown in for a faster initial set.  With this stuff, you can glue your fingers together and usually still be able to get them apart by yourself.  So what you buy at the hobby shop should probably be called CA or even CAC which stands for CyanoAcrylic Cement.  The non related term CACA is what you will be in if you spill it on any furniture belonging to the lady in your life.

Model railroaders tend to use the term ACC because they were quick to pick up on a usefull new product and were using super glue when the only type available was ACC, starting off with Eastman 610.  And we are just too stubborn to change.  ACC, which is largely or mostly methyl-cyanoacrylate and today is available only industrially.  Anybody had the pleasure of gluing a rear view mirror back on to the inside of a windshield?  Now THAT is super glue.  I have been told that it is almost straight methyl-cyanoacrylate.  But before you run out and start buying rear view mirror reattachment kits, might I point out that they run about $15 for a fraction of a milliltre of cement and once opened and exposed to the air, the extra cement sets up within a few hours.

There are a couple more abbreviations you might run into:

AAC = Alkyl-Alpha-Cyanoacrylate

CAA = CyanoAcrylate Adhesive

And watch out for the fumes or you may get one of PD's famous headaches.

Jim

[Robertj668]

Jim
Hope the weather is fine up there in Alaska.  I use the LOCTITE Super Glue I went to the website and they call it a CA type of Adhesive.  Which is an abbreviation for Cyanoacrylate, the chemical name for super glue.  I like using it for its pinpoint accuracy I like that it sets quickly and I can use it on many different surfaces.

Robert

To Flyer: Sorry for kind off taking over the post. But it has been a great source of information.

[ebtbob]

Just some general info on adhesives here.   There is a website called This to That.  www.thistothat.com.    It allows you to fill in two boxes with different types of materials such as plastic to metal.   Hit the Lets Glue button and it brings up available adhesives on the market today.

[CNE Runner]

Flyer - Just a word of warning: ACA, CAA, CA, or any other cyanoacrylates are temperature sensitive. These types of glue lose their chemical bonding capabilities when the ambient temperature gets too cold. While this probably isn't an issue with most modelers; those of us who store our glued structures in unheated area may find small parts have detached from the main body. I keep my structures (non wood) in an unheated garage and couldn't figure out why I had to constantly re-glue small pieces back to the structure. A little research into the chemistry of CA answered my question.

Jim - Trust me you don't want the general public using Methyl-cyanoacrylates...the emergency rooms would be more crowded than they already are. These are the same people that use spray cans of paint indoors and treat drain cleaners like water.

Paul - I always wondered what your 'given' name was. It is much easier typing 'Paul' than 'Pdlethbridge'. Many thanks for clearing that up.

Bob - What an outstanding (and needed) website you have passed on. I have bookmarked it and will use it frequently. Thank you!

Regards,
Ray

[jbsmith]

I use Loctite super glue on my Accurails.  I use it bond the metal weight
to the plastic foor of boxcars and so far it has been great for that.
it works fast so be carefull to have everything lined up right the first time!
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=15&subid=34&plid=191

For plastic to plastic building kits,,i use both Testors orange tube and
testors plastic cement that is liquid in a glass bottle and has a brush attached to the cap.

If you go with loctite,READ the label on the card,look for the words metal and plastic, as there is more than one type of loctite.

[Robertj668]

Ray
My first railroad as a young lad was in an unheated area and found the same problem. My current layout is indoors.  It was originally going to be in the garage.  But TX summers are too hot and winters can get too cold too.

jbsmith
For the longest times I ignored the other pitons till my last visit.  There are many great options.

Bob
Thanks for the website. It is now bookmarked.


Robert

PS To the Bachmann.  Thank you for having spell check here on the message board.  A few message boards do not have it.  Though if I use fire fox browser it has it built in.