Newbie question about turnouts

[lgeorge909]

Right now I have a basic oval shaped track layout.
I wanted to keep the basic layout, but add a little more complexity to the track layout.

What I was thinking of doing was adding 2 RH turnouts and 2 LH turnouts, and a 90 degree crossover.  End result would be a 8 track, inside the oval track.
Atleast, thats what I have in mind.

The question I had was.  When I add the turnouts, is there anyway, for the turnouts to toggle tracks each time the train passes?

In other words, I want to have the ability to power up the track, and not have to manually adjust the turnouts.  If I can get each turnout to toggle once the train passes through, then train would have several track layouts to follow.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Daylight4449]

if what i am seeing in my head and what you have described are the same, it would be a short.

[lgeorge909]

Daylight4449,
Can you explain what a short is a bit more? I'm a total newbie to this.
The turnouts I was considering are Remote Turnout Left (44461) and Remote Turnout Right (44462).

The train is HO scale 0-6-0.

Not sure how what a short is or where I would get it.
If you're refering to an electrical short with DCC....I'm not using DCC.
Just a plain standard HO track. I'm expanding the HO scale Yuletide Special train set. 

[ABC]

DC or DCC you get a short on the tracks because you have some version of a reverse loop. The problem en lies in the fact that the engine is running in a given direction then it switches directions so now it is running in the opposite direction it was originally running. The only way you can do this is if you isolate all your reversing sections, and wire them up with a reversing switch that you would have to throw each time it enters/exits the reversing section. The turnouts are irrelevant, the "train" is irrelevant, and the type of track is irrelevant. If you change to DCC, this would be more feasible, but you would still have to buy a couple automatic reversing units which are only compatible with DCC and do not work with standard analog DC.
      /\ -reversing loop
____\/
Original direction on the straight track-->
After going through the reversing loop End direction on straight track <--

[lgeorge909]

ABC,
I'm not completely following the response. Not sure how it relates to my situation.
Might be that we are thinking about 2 different things.  Or could be that I don't have much experience with tracks yet.

I basically want to create a small track layout.  Using the standard oval track, I want to insert a few turnouts into it to make the 8 track inside it.  I know this is no big issue.

The part that I'm not sure about is, how to make the turnouts switch.  I can control it manually, but I wanted to know if there is any way to have them switch automatically.

For example, when I power up the track, the train would run the oval track first.
While running the oval track, it would come across the first turnout (RH turnout), at this turnout I want the turnout to switch to the right hand track so that the next time the train reaches that turnout, it will take the right hand track into the figure 8 track.

This is what I meant by toggle.  From reading the responses, it sounds like the advice was to have the train go in reverse.

I'm not sure if there is some type of optical sensor, or some automated way of switching tracks on a turnout.

[ABC]

The layout you have described cannot be done with out reversing the polarity, if not you will have a short circuit, so what ever else you wanted to do doesn't matter if your track plan has a short circuit.
And trying to do whatever you're trying to do is the least of you worries. As you described it, your layout is not even operational, it will not work.
Your track plan is creative, the only problem is that you don't understand that it won't work with out a means to reverse the polarity each time it passes through the portion of the track that has the figure 8 or the 90 degree crossing.
If you still don't understand ask for assistance from Jim Banner (He's great at explaining things).

[Jim Banner]

CHAPTER ONE

The toggling part is easy to understand.  Consider each turnout (track switch) as a Y.  Whenever a train comes down either of the two top routes, the turnout has to set for that route or the train will derail.  But when the train comes up from the bottom route, the turnout will toggle.  Now toggle in this context can have two meanings.  One is that it toggles compared to the last time a train approached from the bottom.  That is, if the last train upward went left, the next train upward will go right.  The other meaning is that whatever way the turnout is set when the train approaches from the bottom, the turnout will switch to the other route.  While the difference is subtle, the effect on how the layout runs will be dramatically different.

When I started my present layout in 1984 I had the track similar to what you are talking about except that instead of a level crossing, I had one part of the X flat on the table and the other went up and over.  In both cases, yours and mine, the layout could be run as a figure eight, an oval, and as a loop-to-loop (folded dog bone pattern) in two different ways.  I used one detector (light and photocell) to toggle one turnout to make my train alternate between oval and figure eight.  Running like this, the train was always going in the same direction of each of the six sections of track, no matter whether it was doing an oval or a figure eight.  So I could just set my six polarity switches and let it run automatically.

What these polarity switches were for is this - my train could be moving forward (locomotive leading the train) in either direction on all six sections of track.  You have the same problem.  When my dc train was moving forward from left to right on a piece of track, the rail nearest me was positive.  When it was moving forward right to left of the same piece of track, the rail nearest me was negative.  Now obviously the rail nearest me cannot be positive and negative at the same time.  So I had to have a switch (a toggle switch, not a track switch) to reverse the polarity.  And I had to change the polarity on that track while the train was getting turned around on some other piece of track that also had to have a polarity switch.  These polarity switches are often called "loop switches" because they are often associated with turning loops.

A turning loop is a track configuration where a train can start off on one direction on a piece of track, go around a part circle, and come back in the other direction on the track on which it started out.  That start and end track is usually referred to as the "mainline" in dealing with the turning loop.   In order to do this mechanically, there must be a turnout where the mainline joins the part circle.  This is often called a "loop turnout."   All four turnouts on your layout are loop turnouts.  The two pieces of your layout which can serve as mainlines are the two curved end sections.  So they have to have polarity or loop switches.  Depending on which of the two ends is acting as a mainline, the other end is acting as part of a turning loop.  The two straight sections in your oval can also be parts of turning loops so they need loop switches as well.  The only tracks left are the two diagonals through the middle, and, you guessed it, they too can be parts of turning loops so they too need loop switches.  Adding six loop switches will make your layout work just fine for manual control.

Automatic control, which is what you are looking for, is another question and we can go into that in Chapter Two.

Jim

[sagegraqy]

I too am trying to have a oval with a figure eight crossover and four turnouts.  It seems to me that the simplest thing is to isolate the sections of straight track between the turnouts?  I am wondering what is the best way to control these sections of track?  would a dcc controller help at all?  What is a "loop controller?

Thank you

[ALCO1000]

Right now I have a basic oval shaped track layout.
I wanted to keep the basic layout, but add a little more complexity to the track layout.

What I was thinking of doing was adding 2 RH turnouts and 2 LH turnouts, and a 90 degree crossover.  End result would be a 8 track, inside the oval track.
Atleast, thats what I have in mind.

The question I had was.  When I add the turnouts, is there anyway, for the turnouts to toggle tracks each time the train passes?

In other words, I want to have the ability to power up the track, and not have to manually adjust the turnouts.  If I can get each turnout to toggle once the train passes through, then train would have several track layouts to follow.

Any help would be appreciated.

I  like to help in this matter If I CAN , this what you describe is a good learning experience for a newbie, When you start to use cross tracks with switch tracks you form a question mark type of pattern this is a reverse loop and a electrical short using dc power,,,Now GET a piece of paper , you must draw out YOUR RAILS OR LAYOUT PATTERN HOW YOU WOULD LIKE IT so you can actually see your pattern ON PAPER by using 1 line then draw a parellel line next to it these are your rails , if you have a red and black colored pen or marker   this works best, then you can see if you have any reverse loops this will be where the black rail meets to red rail or vise versa, THIS would need to be isolated using plastic track connectors, for both rails on each end of your reversing section and  these rails have separate wire feeds that you can control( Toggle) the power to by a atlas reverse loop manual switch or if using DCC a reverse loop module sold by Bachmann and other makers ,I have 3 reverse loops in my layout and it really brings it to life especially with dcc control,It takes some thought and planning but it is well worth it in the long run , but you have to pay attention , because when your running the trains in dcc like this if the switch is thrown the wrong way you can have a heads end disaster really easy a little warning, hope this helps! Jack