How to wire for 2 trains on 1 track

[barnesjd]

I am wanting to run 2 trains on 1 set of track, but am not sure how to wire the layout.  Do I need to use two transformers?

[jward]

i assume you are referring to regular dc trains and not the dcc onboard?

in that case, yes, you will need two transformers. the easiest way to wire for two trains is to divide your layout into sevtions called blocks. each block is insulated from adjacent blocks with plastic rail joiners. in each block, one rail is a common connection between both power packs and all the blocks. you don't need to insulate this rail. the other rail is the one with insulating rail joiners. you connect one wire from this rail, for each block, to an electrical switch. the easiest switches to use for this are the atlas selectors.
http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/Track/Trackphotos/215.gif

to use a selector, a wire is run from each power pack to the terminals on the left side of the switch. the terminals on the top are for the wires to each block. each selector will wire 4 blocks to two power packs in this manner.

[barnesjd]

Thank You, I will give this a try.  I won't have any swithes at this time

[NarrowMinded]

Jward,

if you have both Supplies connected to one rail and you want to run one of the locos in reverse what happens?

NM

[RAM]

jward.  What will happen is you will have one train run in reverse while the other runs forward.  That is until they run into each other.  What I would like to know is how big is the layout. 

[jward]

to answer those questions.....

nm,
it is impossible using selectors to connect both power packs to the same block. the slide switches of the selector connect to either a or b but not both. there is also a neutral center position in which both packs are disconnected.

what is confusing you is the common return to both packs. think of it as a sort of ground connection. it is only one side of the circuit. the selector determines which pack it connected to the circuit.

with block control you can have two trains on the same track travelling in opposite directions, as long as they are in seperate blocks connected to diffferent power packs. two locomotives in the same block will be controlled by the same pack, and thus run in the same direction.

this system has been in use for probably as far back as the hobby goes, the selectors merely simplifiy the wiring job. it wasn't until the last 10-15 years or so that dcc and decoder equipped locomotives caught on. before then, block control was the way over 99% of layouts were wired.

[NarrowMinded]

OK,  so your not going directly from both packs to the same rail your going through the selector first?  I'm just trying to figure out if I have been wiring things the hard way for years. I've never used any thing for my tracks except DPDT switches with cross jumpers,

NM

[Jim Banner]

To my way of thinking, by the time you want to run more than one train on the same track, it is time to think about DCC (Digital Command Control.)  The basic starter sets like the Bachmann E-Z Command are easy to learn, easy to install and easy to use.  What you save on wiring, electrical switches and extra power packs goes a long way toward paying for a DCC system on all but the smallest layouts.

With DCC, the limitations of dc block systems disappear.  You CAN run more than one locomotive/train in the blocks, in fact, the whole layout can be one big block.  You CAN have head on collisions if that is what you desire.  You CAN enjoy running your train instead of your track.  No more "What block is my train in?"  "What block is my train going to enter next?"  "Is there another train in that block or going to enter that block before my train?"  "What switch controls that block?"  "Where is that switch physically located?"  and the ever popular "Who's got my block?  I've turned off my throttle but my train is still going, so who is running that block?"

There are many books telling you how to wire a layout for two trains.  Most are based on a-b switches as Jeffery explained.  The neat rows of switches all lined up together are the easiest to wire, but the hardest to use.  You start off with 3 or 4 blocks connected to 3 or 4 switches and it is easy to remember which switch controls which block.  But as your railroad grows (and they always seem to grow) it becomes harder and harder to remember which switch controls which block and where that block is.  So you build a nice control panel showing all the tracks in different colours, and each track having a toggle switch as an a-b selector.  This helps relate switches to the blocks they control, but means a lot of work if you change your track plan.  And both systems, the neat rows of identical slide switches or the toggle switches on a track plan, negate any advantage of having walk around control.  Like it or not, you have to be where the switches are in order to throw them.

But that is only the beginning.  As your layout grows, you will want to add additional locomotives and run more trains at the same time.  The day you want to run three trains at once, your a-b switch system is obsolete.  Now you need a-b-c switches and more wiring.  Being an intelligent fellow who believes it the old saying "Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me." you plan for the future by replacing all your a-b toggle or slide switches with a-b-c-d rotary switches, or even better, radio push button selector switches.  And of course you add more wiring and power packs to make it all work.  You finally get it all wired up, buy some donuts, put some drinks on ice, and invite some friends over to enjoy your railroad with you.  That is when you find out there is not enough room to crowd three or four of you in front of the block switch panel.  Arrgh!  Now it comes down to ripping it all out, spacing the block switches around the layout, and replacing the power packs with new ones with memory and walkaround throttles.  Double Arrgh!!

With DCC, when you want to run a third locomotive, you simply put it on the track and run it.

If you are running three trains by yourself, a DCC system like E-Z Command is ideal - push a button, run a train.  Basically, it has an a-b-c-d-e-f-g-h-i and maybe j selector switch built right in.  If you want to run with a couple of friends, perhaps it is time to upgrade your system.  By now you are probably more into DCC and wanting to be able to program decoders anyway.  A more sophisticated DCC system like a Digitrax Zephyr will allow you to use up to 10 throttles and has enough power to run up to five trains at once (more with a booster.)  No crowding around the block switches - there aren't any.  Nicest thing of all, when you upgrade your DCC system you can sell your old command station for a good percentage of its original price.  It is not like wire where all the little pieces that once made up a roll are worth almost nothing compared to the original price of the roll.  And those expensive switches?  Good luck selling them at any price if the buyer has to start off by unsoldering bits of wire from them.

"But what about decoders?" a small voice in the back row cries.  Well, what about them?  We need one in every locomotive when we use DCC.  As DCC technology has matured, the price of decoders has dropped incredibly and their level of sophistication has increased almost beyond comprehension.  Things like BEMF control (think cruise control) which allows great low speed performance for switching and for viewing all the action of steam locomotives; speed tables which allow different locomotives from different manufacturers to run together as if they were twins; ways of linking up locomotives on the fly any time, anywhere on the layout; and remotely controlled, constant brightness lights - all these are available in low cost decoders for DCC but unavailable at any price in dc locomotives.  And then there is sound.  Neither dc nor DCC has a price advantage with sound when you look at the better sound decoders as the same dual mode decoder are often used in both.  There are some cheaper noise makers that are DCC only - I am not aware of any currently produced that are dc only.

"But what about installing decoders in the engines I have now?" the same small voice in the back row asks.  In my opinion, anyone who can learn the ins and outs of block wiring can just as easily learn to install decoders.  It just isn't that hard and there is a lot of information on specific locomotives on the internet.  The one manual skill that the installer needs is to be able to solder (unless he restricts himself to plug-n-play installations.)  The alternative is to sell off your present locomotives and buy new ones with DCC on board, even though there is some financial loss involved.  But if you are looking at adding to your motive power, how much better is it to let the seller take a loss because he cannot install decoders while you get a bargain because you can?

Am I biased toward DCC?  You betcha.  I have been through block control from a simple a-b system right up to an 8 throttle, 32 block computer assisted automatic block assignment system, and scrapped them all when DCC came along.  It was interesting at the time, but I don't ever want to go back.

Jim

[RAM]

NM The DPDT switches with cross jumpers looks like what you would use to reverse directions, if you were not using the reverse switch on the power pack.  For blocks you would only need spdt with center off.  All you need to do is switch the noncommon rail from one power pack to the other.  The simple thing to do is use dcc.

[hawkijoe62]

I have returned to the hobby after many years away.  I have plenty of Atlas Twins, Selectors and controllers and read Jim Banner's comments on DCC with interest.   My question relates to trying to operate two diesels (Athern) on the EZ track which I have used successfully on a 8 by 4 low table that the grandkids enjoy during visits at Thanksgiving and Christmas.   I searched for an article on how I can wire the track into blocks to allow operation of two diesels simultaneously.   I had wired Atlas track using the common rail and the "wired" joiners.   Is is possible to use the "wired joiners" off the Atlas Selectors running to the blocks and the common wire running to the common rail?   The EZ rail terminal is great but I've never stripped the plastic to see what's inside.   With that background, I have two questions:


#1  Can anyone direct me to an article or other source explaining how to use Atlas Selectors on EZ track to achieve block control?   (And to Jim, you are probably correct, I'll make the move to DCC someday, but, as I understand it, the EZ track is not compatible with DCC so I'll have to scrap all of it and start over.  But first, I'll have to capture a train room for a more permanent layout.)

#2
Related problem is with the EZ track switches (which have operated well over the last three years) and the molded plastic three wire connection.   Hard to drill a large enough hole in the supporting table.   Is there a source of information on solving that problem?

[ABC]

 (And to Jim, you are probably correct, I'll make the move to DCC someday, but, as I understand it, the EZ track is not compatible with DCC so I'll have to scrap all of it and start over.

That is not true Bachmann E-Z track is 100% compatible with DCC. I don't know where you got that idea. Bachmann even sells 3 train sets with E-Z track and their Bachmann E-Z Command DCC Controller included.

[jward]

can you remove the rail joiners from ez track? if so, you can insert insulated joiners, and the terminal joiners just like on normal track. in fact, you'd wire the ez track for block control pretty much the same way as you'd wire regular track.

another thought, the ez track switches come with plug in wiring right? if you cut the plug off the end you can easily feed the wire through a small hole in the table. you could then solder and splice the wires back together. just be sure to wrap the joints with electrical tape to prevent them from shorting together.

[hawkijoe62]

 (And to Jim, you are probably correct, I'll make the move to DCC someday, but, as I understand it, the EZ track is not compatible with DCC so I'll have to scrap all of it and start over.

That is not true Bachmann E-Z track is 100% compatible with DCC. I don't know where you got that idea. Bachmann even sells 3 train sets with E-Z track and their Bachmann E-Z Command DCC Controller included.

ABC, thanks.  I must have mis-understood something I read on line.  There is a lot of information available.    Hawkijoe62

[ABC]

That's alright. Happy model railroading.

[hawkijoe62]

can you remove the rail joiners from ez track? if so, you can insert insulated joiners, and the terminal joiners just like on normal track. in fact, you'd wire the ez track for block control pretty much the same way as you'd wire regular track.

another thought, the ez track switches come with plug in wiring right? if you cut the plug off the end you can easily feed the wire through a small hole in the table. you could then solder and splice the wires back together. just be sure to wrap the joints with electrical tape to prevent them from shorting together.

Jward, thanks for the suggestions, that's what I need to know.  Yes, the rail joiners are removable, my problem will be to know which rail accepts the common and which rail I should insulate when using the EZ track wiring.  I appreciate your help.  Hawkijoe62