Using masonite for structures?

[AlanMintaka]

Hi Everyone,
I've wound up with a ton of 1/8" scrap masonite and was wondering if it could be used to make structures for my HO layout.  When I search the internet for advice on this topic, I find that most model railroaders use masonite for roadbeds or large backdrops, but no one seems to use it for structures.

Is this a bad idea?  Given the fact that I already have this stuff, I don't have worry about cost issues, only whether or not making buildings out of it is worthwhile.  Some of the concerns voiced on the sites I found had to do with humidity and how it can make masonite warp.  But for small HO structures, it doesn't seem as though warping could be much of a problem - the pieces will all be small and everything will be tacked (with brads) or glued tight to interior wood bracing. 

I've experimented with various kinds of spray paint I have around here.  The masonite holds up with Rustoleum and model enamel, no sign of warping that is, and the "shiny" side takes the paint very well.

I've even been able to cobble up a nice looking peaked roof with it.  I start with a rectangular piece of masonite a little longer than the house and a little wider than twice each half of the roof (for overhang).  Then, using my table saw, I cut a narrow groove (one pass with the blade) the length of the roof, underneath where the peak will be.  This takes a little practice because the groove has to be just the right depth.  Too deep saws the roof in half, argh, and too shallow makes the peak fold look ragged.

Anyway, once the groove is cut, the masonite is carefully folded - not in half, just to the angle of the roof's peak.  The seam on the outside doesn't look bad at all provided the groove was not cut too shallow.  Then I place the roof on two wooden protoype peaks and spray paint it in the folded position. 

This makes the paint look uniform across the peak, but it also looks unnatural to have a perfectly straight-edged peak like that.  So, taking a cue from the folks who simulate shingled finishes using overlapping strips of painted tissue paper, I'm experimenting with a single strip of paper tape along the peak, painted over after it's glued in place.  It hasn't set up yet but with any luck it'll look at least something like a row of peak ridge material of some kind. 

Well, obviously I'm still in the experimental stages of using masonite this way.  Has anyone else used it to make structures, and if so, how have they held up over time?

Thanks to all for taking the time to read this,
Big Al Mintaka

"I believe a leaf of grass
is no less than the journey-work of the stars."
--Walt Whitman

[CNE Runner]

Al - While I have never used Masonite for structures; I don't see why one couldn't use the product. The assumption is that you are using internal bracing to prevent warping and separation at the joints. Outside of wood and plastic, my favorite medium in structure construction is foamcore. Foamcore is very strong for its weight, inexpensive, can be had in numerous colors, usually easily obtained at numerous craft stores, and can be joined via a hot glue gun. Prior to assembling wall sections, I laminate the foamcore with either stripwood, styrene, or paper laminates from Paper Creek Models. At the very least foamcore structures can be used as 'fill in' buildings - to represent the final structure to be constructed from other materials.

Let us know how the Masonite worked out for you.

Ray

[mabloodhound]

I will also say that masonite would make a good substrate for a model.   It probably isn't used because of cost and weight and difficulty cutting.
Foamcore is used mostly as it is lighter and easy to cut and assemble.
Definitely look at the paper overlays, such as Clever Models, as these give a truly realistic finish, no painting required. http://www.clevermodels.net/index.htm

[CNE Runner]

Thanks Dave - Clever Models deserves a mention as they are rapidly becoming my favorite source of printed overlays. It is amazing what one can do with their excellent products, some light weathering, and an overspray of Dulcoat. BTW: I have found using a glue stick to be the best way of securing the overlay to the base foamcore. Glue sticks have a very low moisture content and seem to last extremely well.

Ray

[mabloodhound]

Glue sticks; good idea Ray.   I'll have to try that on the next paper model.   I was using double sided tape but that can be awkward and repositioning is difficult at best.

[jerryl]

  I don't think you would have any trouble with warping, but you will have A LOT of trouble cutting window & door openings.  Use a small carbide cutter in a motor tool ( I use a B&D rather than Dremel...more amperage for less cost) & finish up with a small file to square the corners up.
  I realize you already have the Masonite, but styrene doesn't cost much for the small amount you need for an HO structure.  You could use the masonite for the roof & any other parts that don't require cutouts.    jerry

[AlanMintaka]

Thanks to all for the useful advice! 

jerryl's point about cutouts is well taken.  The table and miter saws I have (courtesy my Dad, a real Renaissance jack of all trades) are great for cutting shapes with masonite, but cutouts are another matter.  I have to use a utility or hobby knife/saw for that sort of work, and it's tough to get square, straight edges (and keep from severing arteries at the same time).

Already I can see that the masonite is going to make a good underlying structure but that some kind of outer layerings are going to be needed both for realistic looks and to cover the numerous cutout gaffes.

I'm still fooling around with that idea of layering toilet paper, paper tape, etc for shingle effects.  The paper tape used for bandages sets up very well after being painted over but has serrated, uneven edges.  Cutting the stuff lengthwise to true it up and make straight edges would be a real chore.  Too bad, because it makes a great roof peak cap/hinge.

There are two other experiments waiting to set up.  One uses regular masking tape for the peak cap, the other uses freezer tape.  So far the freezer tape looks like the better bet because it absorbs the paint, which will help it adhere to the masonite better.  Also the adhesive on freezer tape is pretty robust stuff, formulated as it is for temperature extremes.  The masking tape looks great painted but I have doubts about how well it will stay stuck to the masonite.

Printed overlays with glue stick or other adhesion is a great idea too.  I have a color laserjet here that I can use to create ad-hoc patterns of any kind, with fused toner that won't behave badly if any moisture is involved in the gluing/painting process.  This printer, a LexMark C510, is also good with a wide range of paper types so I can experiment with different materials to see what works best when glued on masonite.  "Clever Models" - I'll make a note of that, thanks Ray and mabloodhound (latter for the link).

With all this experimenting going on, it's getting hard to see the proverbial forest through the trees.  As a possibly unrelated side note, I also collect old building sets - American Plastic Bricks, Lincoln Logs (redwood trestles coming up!), Girder and Panel, etc.  This masonite is turning out to be a great roofing and flooring material for those applications as well.  In particular, the cardstock roofs that came with the old plastic bricks sets hasn't held up well over time, and painted/textured masonite is the perfect substitute.

The old Girder and Panel/Bridge and Turnpike truss bridges with masonite beds look fantastic.  Those Kenner sets are HO scale too, real 1:87.  Bridge Street Toys (http://www.bridgestreettoys.com/index.html) is selling recast sets/parts now.

And now I've found that for flat roofs, painted masonite squares with the textured sides up are perfect.  Never mind that some of those pits are almost a foot deep in HO scale - it looks great.

Progress marches on.  I'm not even done with the table yet.  I expect that I'll soon be posting questions about inverted cone LED lighting for those Girder and Panel structures which I will be using in the layout. 

I'll keep you all posted on developments with the masonite!

Thanks once again to all for the helpful advice,
Big Al Mintaka

"I believe a leaf of grass
is no less than the journey-work of the stars."
--Walt Whitman

[Jim Banner]

I have been using a lot of 1/8" Baltic Birch plywood in 0-scale buildings and use a technique for cutting window and door openings that might work with Masonite.  It requires only 3 tools - a 1/8" drill, a coping saw and a file.  A hole drilled in each corner makes starting and turning the saw easier and the file is to clean up the hole after coping it.

Jim

[CNE Runner]

Having read all the previous posts; I still cannot see the advantage of Masonite (or furniture-grade birch Jim) over foamcore. Window openings are cut out using your trusty hobby knife. Wall/roof sections are glued together with a low temperature hot glue gun (an oxymoron if there ever was one). Reinforcing is done with scrap pieces of foamcore - and the whole shebang can be laminated with any number of the excellent paper products on the market today.

Sorry guys...but using Masonite [et. al.] seems like a government 'make work' project.

Just my opinion...if you don't like that one; I have hundreds more to share,
Ray

[Paul M.]

His main advantage was that he had lots of Masonite, while buying huge amounts of foamcore can add up in a hurry.

[Len]

Jim's suggestion about the coping saw is a good one. If you have a lot of this stuff, you might look into investing in a scroll saw. They don't cost a ton of money, and take a lot of the tedium out of doing cutouts.

Another use for 1/8in masonite is bases for your plastic and foamcore buildings and structures. If you make the base a bit wider than the building, shrubbery can be attached to the base. Then it will move with the building if you decide to relocate it. This also allows those who must operate on the floor to dress up their buildings a bit, without having the trees fall over all the time.

Len

[CNE Runner]

Whilst rereading this thread, Len's post stimulated a memory of a technique I used on the old Sweethaven Harbor layout. I wanted to have the ability to change structures, or eras, easily and came up with [what I refer to as] The Jigsaw Puzzle Building Base method (OK, OK...I didn't come up with the idea; but saw it somewhere).

In this method one determines the shape and size of a particular building site (for example a flour mill). The site should include all relevant structures or landscaping that are germane to that structure (ex. parking lots, loading platforms, driveways, support structures). Keep in mind that some building sites may require an odd-shaped 'lot'. You then cut out a template (I to use foamcore) and transfer from this template to either a piece of Masonite, thin plywood, styrene, or foamcore base (put the template in a safe place for reuse in the future). Your structure (in this example a flour mill) is affixed to the base and the whole lot is decorated in an appropriate manner. Lighting can be installed and connected to an embedded connector in the layout surface.

Should you desire to change the structure at that location you simply pick up the base, detach any lighting leads, and replace it with another structure secured to its own base that is the same shape and size as the flour mill's base. With appropriate scenery, it is extremely difficult to tell that a building/base is removeable. Check out this link to get an idea of what I mean:

http://s395.photobucket.com/albums/pp38/Allegro34/Model%20Railroad%20Pictures/Sweet%20Haven%20Harbor%20RR/

BTW: Unrelated to the structure bases discussed above; thin Masonite will sag with time and should be supported. Al, if you are 'roofing' a large expanse you need to take this into consideration.

Regarding cutting out window/doors and those pesky 90 degree corners: Micro Mark offers a 90 degree Corner Punch that ain't cheap...but works great! The punch is Item # 81652 (5/16") or # 82395 (3/16") and is priced [hold onto your collective hats] $24.95 and $23.95...good Holiday gift to ask for? I used one of these in my drill press and it worked great. The only problem was that the owner wanted it back.

Ray

[Doneldon]

The masonite should work just fine and there really isn't a concern with warping on such small pieces as HO structures.  So...he has free materials and no need for interior reinforcement.  Sounds like a good deal to me!

[AlanMintaka]

Hi Everyone,
I've been playing with Masonite and a few other materials and thought I'd post a followup.  Masonite is working very well for flat surfaces, not so well for cutouts as some of the posters predicted.  It's great for roofs of all kinds.

Right away I ran into a problem with the weight of Masonite.  I have a large structure with a square heliport on the roof.  It's 18" on each side.  To save on building materials (Kenner's Girder & Panel) I made the tower underneath the heliport narrower than the top.  The total height is 41".  For the materials typically used in Girder & Panel buildings, it's a very solid structure.

However when I plopped the 18" sq Masonite roof on top, the weight of the roof made the structure unstable - as in wicked top-heavy.

So now I'm experimenting with various kinds of foam to serve as a lightweight roof.  I bought some fan-fold foam 3/8" thick and practiced my nonexistent cutting skills until I got the right shape without beveled edges.

I learned the stupid way that spray enamel isn't kind to foam.  I knew beforehand that gasoline dissolves styrofoam but didn't make the connection with some of the solvents in spray enamel.

So I cut another roof and am now painting with spray acrylic - the Tamiya stuff.  The first coat of primer didn't dissolve the roof, so it's a go so far.

But this raised another question with regard to structural materials, finishing methods, painting, etc.  As I was spraying the acrylic on the roof, I started to get the distinct impression that this stuff is really, really bad for you.  Is that the case?  It's a lot more foul smelling than enamel, that's for sure. 

Assuming I survive, I have decal paper for my color laserjet and will experiment with decals for landing patterns on the roof.  That's a ways down the road.

One other foam I may try soon is foam backing board used in framing prints.  I have a few squares of it and it's really nice stuff.  It's also extremely expensive.  I'm resisting using it unless the fan-fold stuff turns out to be just unworkable.

The long way around is done and the question that appeared was: is acrylic bad stuff healthwise?  The writing on the can is all in Japanese chars so I can't tell what the warnings are, if any. 

Thanks to all for taking the time to read this and have a good one,

Big Al Mintaka

[CNE Runner]

Al - If I may repeat myself: Foamcore makes a much better building material than Masonite (hardboard). Hobby Lobby carries nice large sheets of foamcore (20"x 30"); and sells them for $1.99 each. You can easily build a medium sized (in HO) structure with one sheet. The only drawback is that Hobby Lobby only carries this product in white (it can be had elsewhere in a variety of colors). If you require larger sheets, you local sign shop can get it in 4'x 8' panels...possibly larger).

In summary, foamcore is cheap and easy to work with. You have already 'experimented' with hardboard...why continue down a path laced with diminishing returns? The only application I have found foamcore lacking is as transfer table material. The foamcore is much too light...5 mm birch plywood is much better (with the addition of automobile wheel weights...even better).

Get a piece of foamcore - a low temperature hot glue gun - and experiment. With the application of printed paper transfers, and weathering, you will be pleasantly surprised.

Ray