Bachmann loco's/ atlas track

[gandoff]

hello all, i have just recently recommited my self to getting back into model railroading. i have been away from hobbies for many, many years. I have worked on Cristmas display's with my father and Grandfathers when I was much younger. things have changed Greatly since then, ( i have just turned 60 on the 15th of nov this year). I have received 2 Bachmann starter kits for Christmas last year. My Wife has encouraged me to take up a hobbie. I settled on model railroading. i have been working on a permanent layout (for now). after reading the forums, and attempting to gain knowledge on the current status of the options available on the net, I decided to go with Atlas code 80 track, for that is the most previelant option i have with my local Hobby shop. I recently spent over 100.00 dollars on Atlas track for more flexability on the layout. Now I am seeing problems with the rerailers and switches. My locos derail after or before they cross the Rerailers and turnouts. I am thinking that the plastics in the above mentioned track segments are the problem. I'm asking, Has anyone experianced this problem and resolved a solution to it? My loco's are: Steam loco's are: 4-8-4 and  a 4-4-0 ( Kits are Empire builder and Prarie Flyer). I will appreciate any and all ideas and all solutions to this problem. because of this problem, my 4-8-4 took a canyon dive off my table, broke the forward truck, casting tab, and Really dinged up the cow catcher and bell, I Thank you all in advance for any and All Advice. Dave(gandoff)

[fieromike]

Offhand, the only thing I can think of is to get an NMRA standards gauge and check to see if all your wheels are in gauge.  It sounds like you have some that are gauged too narrow.

Mike

[brokemoto]

As Fieromike points out, the odds are that it is out of gauge wheels.  Older issues of the Standard Line 4-8-4 were known for that.  I am assuming that you have the Standard Line
4-8-4, which is based on an ATSF 4-8-4, as opposed to the SPECTRUM J.  The newest run of the 4-8-4 is supposed to have many improvements over older runs and is not supposed to be too bad.  I do not have one of the newest and I rarely run my older version, as a 4-8-4 is a bit too large for my interests.

The 4-4-0 does not seem to show the out-of-gauge problems that other locomotives do.  As it is a short wheelbase locomotive, it does tend to stall on plastic frog switches at speeds below thirty-five SMPH.  If you will spend hour after hour breaking in this one and operate it on a pike with metal frog switches, it is not a bad locomotive.  I have one that will operate at fifteen SMPH.  Most of mine operate at twenty to twenty five SMPH.   Eight wheelers in the 1860s and 1870s had a top speed of about fifty MPH and frequently operated at about thirty five.  If you do try to run this one too fast, its wobble will cause the pilot trucks to jump the track.

If you are using nine and three quarter or eleven inch curves, you might want to consider the Bachpersonn SPECTRUM 2-8-0.  Do not confuse this with the older issue Standard Line
2-8-0.  The Standard Line 2-8-0 is out of production, but you will still see it in hobby stores and at shows as NOS.  The Standard Line 2-8-0 is based on a Reading Company locomotive and has the Wooten firebox,  The SPECTRUM is based on a catalogue version of a Baldwin
2-8-0 and is a bit shorter than is the Reading .  Buy the SPECTRUM, stay away from the other one. The SPECTRUM 2-8-0 is a very good locomotive; in fact, it is one of the best N scale steam locomotives out there.

If you like the nineteenth century steam, Athearn sells 1880s 2-8-0s and 2-6-0s.  Atlas also sells an 1870s 2-6-0 that MicroAce manufactured.  All of them are good, although the Atlas/MicroAce is finicky and will stall on plastic frog switches at slow speeds.  The Athearns are large enough that they do not stall.  The Athearns are copies of the MDC 2-8-0/2-6-0, so if you see MDC/Roundhouse 1880s steam at a show or in a store as NOS, they are the same thing.  Athearn did make some improvements, such as working MT couplers fore and aft.

If the wheels are not out of gauge, or, if you regauge them and the derailment problem persists, the switches could be the source.  An occasional Atlas turnout will show problems, but they are not the norm.  Before looking at the turnout, understand that if you are placing turnouts right after a curve, it can cause derailments if you throw the switch for the diverging track.  This goes double for sharp curves.

If the placement is not causing the derailments, it is time to look at the turnouts.  Atlas switches show two problems.

The first is a malformed plastic frog.  The center part of the frog sometimes comes malformed and catches wheels.  The solution is to file, EVER so lightly the straight part of the frog.  File only enough to end the derailments.

If that does not address the problem, sometimes the moving points are not properly seated and it causes the points not to sit properly against the stock rails.  A  little piece of the point rails stick out and catch the wheels.  Often it is because the tabs that hold the point rails to the turnout are too loose.  If you will bend the tabs to tighten the grip, often that will solve the problem. 

Sometimes the problem is with malformed point rails.  The solution is to bend, very slightly the point rails so that they seat properly against the stock rails.  Sometimes, it is necessary to file the ends of the point rails, but again, be patient and careful when you do this.  File only enough to end the derailment problem.

Steam locomotive pilot wheels are notorious for finding trackwork flaws.  They are particullarly prone to derailments on turnouts that have problems.

[gandoff]

Thanks fieromike and Brokemoto for sharing the info. I'm going to look at the problem againwith a greater insight to the deal. I read on the General discussion board a suggestion from Mabloodhound about removing a truck from a car and roll it over the frogs and see just what is happenning and then explore my new options. thanks again, gandoff (Dave)

[ftauss]

Offhand, the only thing I can think of is to get an NMRA standards gauge and check to see if all your wheels are in gauge.  It sounds like you have some that are gauged too narrow.

Mike

Absolutely! My 4-8-4, which is new, had both pilots were to narrow and 2 of the drivers. Kept picking the points on an EZ TRack switch. Now that it's adjusted it runs fine, running right now behind me.

Frank

[TenWheeler]

I have just recently had the same problem.  All but 3 of my steamer would derail on Atlas turnouts.  After further investigation I notice that they were only derailing on a few of the Atlas turnouts.  So I pulled one that was causing details and one that was working.  And did a comparison and too my surprise there were diffrent.   

first the working turnout had stamped points.  The problem one had cast points.

second the frog spacing and amount of plastic was diffrent. 

So I emailed Atlas and yes they did change the code 80 turnouts.  And you guesses it,  The new ones are the cast point type. 

the problem with the new turnouts are that the cast points are not as thin and the stamped steal.  And the frog spacing is to tight for models with wide flanges. AKA Model Power steams and most Bachmann steam but the 2-8-0 Spec.  It looks your locomotive is going over a speed bump on one side when it pass over one of the new turnouts.

So look at your switch and see if you have stamped points or cast points.