Education in model railroading?

[CNE Runner]

I always read, with interest, various threads related to electronics. A must read is anything Jim Banner writes - as he has probably forgotten more about the hobby than most of us will ever learn. Having said that, where do the rest of us learn some of the new skills inherent in the hobby? I have gotten where I did in life through the use/assistance of continual education ('currently trying to learn to speak Spanish...another story). Education is the most efficient way to navigate through life and adds another dimension to our experience...wouldn't that be true of model railroading?

More to the point: I have no idea how to install a decoder - let alone a sound system. Sure Model Railroader and some websites do a fairly good job of explaining the process...that is a long way from carrying out the deed (and can be a very expensive learning curve). Why aren't there workshops to lean advanced skills? Many of us do not belong to clubs and have no resource people to learn from - so that option is void. The most efficient means of learning is to listen, observe, and do.

Perhaps if you are talented/knowledgeable, in these areas of the hobby, you could pass that knowledge on to others at your local community college or evening classes? I, for one, would love to take your course...........Jim.

Ray

[jonathan]

Here in Northern Virginia, one of the local community colleges actually offers a model railroading class as part of their engineering program.  When the semester is running, they even show the old Model Railroader videos on their public access channel (evenings).  The class is very basic as they are trying to teach students how to put design, electronics, physics, and engineering to practical use.

I suggest this forum (and others) is a free course in MR.  Over the last three years, I have learned a lifetime of skills from reading theses posts.  Photos are a great help, and those of you who put up photos with your words are to be commended.  In a way "Ask the Bach Man" is our own little MR club, with nearly 6000 members!  We don't share a common layout, but my own layout is much better off because of this group.  Can't thank you enough.

Concerning DCC and decoders, here's a cheap opinion.  After spending the last month isolating motors on old Athearn engines (I like to tinker),  I have come to the conclusion it is more economical, and efficient, to purchase locomotives that already have DCC on board, OR have the DCC ready receptacle installed.  Why waste precious modeling time trying to get an old engine running in DCC?  I don't practice what I preach--I like the challenge of taking old equipment and trying to get it to run along with my new equipment.  I'm a little conflicted I guess.

Finally, the local MR club had an open house yesterday, and I visited their layout and spoke to one of the operators (under 40 btw), about DCC and how their Digitrax system operated.  He was very kind and took me through how the controllers worked, operating trains, turnouts and sounds.  Then it happened... none of the three trains operating could make it around the large layout without stalling on a switch or a poorly laid piece of track.  Not a single train could make it around once.  Here was this large, highly detailed layout, with all the bells and whistles, and the trains wouldn't go without a little 0-5-0 assistance.  I felt sorry for the operator, and disappointed.  I want to join this club one day (time permitting), to learn and share with other modelers.  But now I wonder if I would really spend time fixing trackwork and trip pins, instead of learning.  I digress.

I think my original point was mentioning that folks like Jim, Yampa Bob, CNE Runner, Lexon, BestSnowMan, JH2, Narrowminded, Loco Bill, (endless list).... ALL contribute precious knowledge, over the net (for free).  All we have to do is absorb the knowledge and test it out on our own trains.  This forum filled that knowledge void I had.  It keeps me motivated!

Thanks to all the Vets!

Regards,

Jonathan

USN(ret)

[jward]

i think that we are all the sum of our experiences. we all bring something different to the hobby, and we allget something different out of it. i don't think a course in model railroading would be good for that reason. maybe you could teach basic model railroading, but there are so many different ways to do things that no course could cover them. the last thing this hobby needs is regimented thinking. this is one of the reasons that i am not a huge fan of the model magazines, particularly mr. they try to dumb things down, and don't often publish what doesn't conform to their way of doing things.

this hobby is all about creativity. we could all take the same locomotives, cars and track, and each one of us would come up with something completely our own. this forum enhances that creativity by allowing us to tap the vast pool of knowledge, and get personal answers to our questions. you get both pro and con to anything you ask, and you can evaluate the advantages and pitfalls for yourself. i don't see a course, or magazine, or local club, offering what we have right here.....

[Jim Banner]

Thanks, Ray, for the kind words.  With an introduction like that I am almost afraid to go on.  Almost...

As many on this forum know, I have the pleasure of standing up in front of a class of model railroaders for a couple of months each year.  This is a part of the volunteer work that a small group of us  (the Saskatoon Railroad Modellers) does at the local museum.  These classes are the most formal form of teaching that we use.  The basic format is a talk with demonstrations on some aspect of model railroading followed by questions and answers on the days topic and anything else that comes to mind.  This goes on for 8 or 9 Sunday afternoons in February and March.

Our small model railroading group  meets every Saturday morning to check our automatic display layouts and have coffee at the museum.  We have a standing invitation to all model railroaders to join us.  People who hesitate to ask questions in our classes will often open up with a barrage of questions on a one to one basis.

A third form of teaching that our group does is by telephone.  We get calls from past students, present students. modellers we have met at model RR shows, and people referred to us by the museum.  Sometimes this involves a simple question, sometimes a visit one way or the other is a better solution.

The fourth way of teaching is by some of us meeting on Saturday afternoons, usually in someones home or in my workshop, to talk about and try out new ideas, drink some coffee, and have a doughnut.

Yet another way of spreading the word is at train shows.  Our group always participates in the local, yearly train show.  For me, that usually equates to two days of nonstop talking.  Our group has a 14' x 42' large scale layout that we set up but I haven't been allowed to run a train on it several years.  It seems my buddies hate having their trains rear ended by my train as I am busy talking and not looking.  In the same vein, a couple of us hold our own home train shows for friends and neighbours.    My solution then is to hand a throttle to one of the young visitors, show him or her which knob controls which train, and leave them to it while I talk to guests.

Putting this all together, education means talking and showing, to individuals, to small groups and even to large groups.  Education also means listening.  Listening to questions, and sometimes, listening to what a person is trying to ask but does not know the words.  It also means listening to other peoples' answers because everyone knows more than you do about something.

I hope this suggests something to everyone.  And that something is, we can all be teachers.  The easiest thing to set up is a round robin group that meets in members homes on a regular basis.  If it is your turn this week, you get to choose the topic.  It is easy to talk about things you are familiar with.  The same applies to answering questions.  If the questions stray off subject, you have help at hand in the form of other members.

At the other end of the spectrum is the formal classroom setting.  The first requirement is space.  Many school boards are involved with evening classes and welcome new ideas for classes.  They usually set a minimum class size, so the first year or two you may have to hustle to get enough people to register.  In this, hobby shops and local media are your friends.  You local library may have suitable rooms for giving talks - I know ours does.  And they are likely to be more flexible in terms of numbers of attendees.  Then there are local museums.  Some of them have an educational element in their makeup - I know our Saskatoon Western Development Museum does and is always glad to provide space for and help with our classes.  Failing the above, you might have to consider renting some space.  Church basements come immediately to mind.  In this case, you will have to look after advertising, registration, and collecting some sort of fee to offset the rent.

The bottom line, if you want a place that teaches model railroading, you may have to be the teacher.  And in spite of what you are thinking, yes, you CAN do it.

The only question unanswered is WHY?.  I can only speak for myself.
(1) Part of the reason we set up the Saskatoon Railroad Modellers group was that we had all got a great deal of pleasure from model railroading and it was time to give some of that pleasure back.  Being available to answer questions has always been part of that payback.
(2) Building a layout for the public to run at their pleasure evoked so many questions that we decided to formalize the answering process in the form of classes.  It is easier to answer the same question once to two dozen people than it is to answer it once to each of 24 people.
(3) Not everyone learns well from books.  I never used to count being able to learn how to do something by reading about it as one of my blessings.  But now I do.  Time and again I have had people tell me that they can read the instructions, over and over, and spend lots of time examining the photos, and they still do not know what to do.  But show them once and they have it for ever.  These people are not dummies.  Often they are retired after having a very successful career in their chosen fields.  They are usually interesting people to talk to and can tell fascinating stories.  But they cannot learn from the written word.  Their gratitude when they find someone who is willing to show them how to enjoy their chosen hobby is overwhelming.
(4) At the other end of the age spectrum are the young people, often preteens.  They already have an interest in the hobby and all it needs is a bit of nourishing to make it flourish.  Because of their interest in the subject, these kids are eager to learn how to learn and to enjoy learning.  And that spreads to all aspects of their education, often leading them to be the movers and shakers of their generation.  It is gratifying to teach these youngsters at 10, 11 or 12, only to have them come back at 20 to tell you what they are doing.  Some have followed their hobbies and become engineers and conductors right at the beginning of their railroad careers.  Others have gone into other fields with promising starts to good careers.  One fellow stopped by to tell me about the specialized computer accessories his company was producing.  (I don't mean the company he worked for - he had 15 people working for him.)  It is wonderful to be able to play some small part in the future by dealing with such people.

I could go on, but I am sure anyone who has read this far hopes that I won't.  But please let me say, if you figure you need classes in model railroading, consider starting some yourself.

Jim

p.s.  I see Jeffery has posted, and I agree with him.  Trying to avoid the "my way or the highway" approach is one of the reasons I always start off our classes by telling people that any methods I teach are the methods that work for me,  and that I make no claim that they are the best methods or even that they are good methods, just the ones that work for me.  I also encourage people to experiment to see what works best for them.  This applies much more to the artistry of model railroading and not so much to the technology.  For example, experimenting with alternate ways to connect up a decoder is almost guaranteed to produce immediate, disastrous results.

J

[NelsOn-30]

The following is based on my personal experience.

Successful model railroaders have developed a range of capabilities.

A capability is being able to successfully apply knowledge to achieve a goal

Statistics I remember from adult education courses I took 35 years ago are that 15% of your usable knowledge comes from reading or listening to instructions. 25% comes from what you watch or see and the remaining 60% comes from actually performing the skill.

A good example is soldering. Many people are almost as confused after reading a "how to" article. More will have some skill after watching a demonstration or video. Receiving hands on instruction while actually soldering will achieve a level of confidence quickly.

Depending on the capability to be learned the classroom may not be the best environment.

Setting up a lab with work stations to teach could be cost prohibitive

[CNE Runner]

Thanks to all for your insightful replies. I did facilitate an Introduction to Model Railroading at our local Retired & Senior Volunteer Program offices. The class was well attended with something like 25+ attendees. Because of the cost and logistics involved with providing a hands-on experience; we were not able to continue with additional workshops.

As a retired clinical psychologist, I concur with NelsOn-30 about the importance of skill practice/performance. While not necessary for skill development; hands-on practice elevates the retention curve dramatically. In a past part of my life I kept the lights burning by earning a meager living as a flight instructor. Time and time again, I saw the best prepared (textbook wise) student completely lost when behind the controls. It is only after repeated, structured practice that a skill can truly (or efficiently) become internalized.

Again, thanks for the responses and - yes Jim - I was complimenting both your store of knowledge as well as your willingness (and ability) to share same. BTW: Jim, 'Saskatoon' sounds like one of those strange Canadian words...just a guess.

Cheers,
Ray

[mabloodhound]

I will add, that everything above is right on target.   However, those of us without any other resource than the computer, have turned to photo tutorials on the forums.
I have learned a lot from these and can highly recommend two forums that will give you details on anything you need about Model RRing.
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/active.asp   and
http://kitforums.com/index.php
The Bachmann forum here is great fro anything Bachmann, but if you want greater details about MRR, try these.   Including photos on how to install a sound decoder.

[Robertj668]

I will say that I have learned a lot here.  I have learned how to ad DCC to a DC engine (Jim Banner).  I have learned how to convert my old Horn Hook Couplers, all varieties to kadee (Yampa Bob)  I recently go the courage to build and post pictures of my first wood kit.  Oh and some Bachmann Engine help too! And great general advice from everyone.

I made made many friends here to. Jim Banner, Yampa Bob(hope you are okay), CNE Runner (Ray) , Jonathan, jward, Steemgene all of you I consider friends.

I did check out the other links the Mabloodhoun posted. They seem pretty nice too.  I am going to give them a try.

I would love if we could post how to videos here.  Well we could put them on Youtube.

Now I do need help in learing how to solder. I have tried and never get the hang of it. My local hobby shop has offered to teach me but when I do show up they seem to busy.  That's okay. First I need the right tools any help with that?

Robert

[Jim Banner]

BTW: Jim, 'Saskatoon' sounds like one of those strange Canadian words...just a guess.
Cheers,
Ray

Saskatoon - definitely Canadian.  Saskatoon Saskatchewan - that's been known to make people hang up when you try to tell them where you live.  But still not as bad as Eyebrow Saskatchewan, or Moose Jaw Saskatchewan, the city where I go from time to time to drive Saskatchewan's only operating steam locomotive (and no, it is not lettered for the Moose Jaws Lumber Company.)

I wouldn't want to say that we are sensitive about our name but "Walla Walla Washington" doesn't get the laughs here that it might in other places.

Saskatoon is named after the berries that grow in the area.  In Cree, Saskatoon means "early berries."  Saskatoon berries are like blueberries with class.

Jim

[jbsmith]

i too enjoy reading Jim Banners posts.
He is a mother load gold mine of information, to the point i am surprised he
has not been offered a "how to" book deal or something like that.

Keep up the Good Works Jim!

[jward]

with the web you don't need a book deal to get your how to ideas out there. jim has an excellent web site that has helped me immensely.

i am old enough to realize that it isn't what you know but who you know that gets you published. it is this way whatever you do. how many excellent musicians toil in obscurity while britney earns the big bucks? i also recall a few years back a book on dcc written by one of the columnists in a model railroad magazine. boiled down it said dcc is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and was almost completely devoid of any really useful information. it was just the sort of book you'd expect to see from a manufacturer of dcc systems, who had a stake in selling them, not a "reputable" columnist for a major magazine. ironically, digitrax also had a dcc book out, which did an excellent job of not only explaining dcc's potential, but the pitfalls as well, and how to avoid them.....

the beauty of the internet age is that we are no longer beholden to publishers to get our ideas and experiences out there. we have excellent web sites such as jim's done not in the hope of making alot of money, but for the love of the hobby. and we also have forums like this one where no question is too stupid to be asked. i mean that in a good way. we were all neophytes once. and we've all asked simple questions at one time or another. i still do, in areas outside my expertise.....

i think we are much better off to-day than ever before, in the amount of useful information available for the asking.....

[CNE Runner]

Isn't there some great stuff in this thread? Robert - thanks for the kudos...I sincerely appreciate them. Just to be included with folks like Jim Banner, Yampa Bob, Jonathan, JWard and SteamGene makes me hold my head up a little higher. Mabloodhound, your suggestion about videos is spot on. There is a series of 'how to make scenery with Styrofoam' on YouTube. The chap that produces the videos works without a script - and doesn't have a cameraman; so the quality of the video is not necessarily the best...what information he passes on is priceless.

OK everyone: Now that you can spell Saskatoon (I think I'll have some saskatoons on my cereal this morning.), spell the largest city in New Mexico without looking it up or using the spell checker. Just kidding Jim...please don't tell the Mounties to confiscate my passport at the border.

One 'person' who deserves a huge expression of gratitude is Mr. Bach Man (a.k.a. Bachmann Trains). This is the best hobby-related forum I have yet to experience; and we owe it all to Bachmann trains as well as the caliber of posters that use the vehicle. Occasionally we do get a little annoyed with each other (usually as a result of other factors...not necessarily what is posted - then again doesn't that occasionally happen in any relationship?). I know I have learned a lot [please, please notice that 'a lot' is two words...not one] and I sincerely hope I have been able to inform and inspire a few of you. Thank you all.

The glass is only half empty...
Ray

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

BTW: Jim, 'Saskatoon' sounds like one of those strange Canadian words...just a guess.
Cheers,
Ray

Saskatoon - definitely Canadian.  Saskatoon Saskatchewan - that's been known to make people hang up when you try to tell them where you live.  But still not as bad as Eyebrow Saskatchewan, or Moose Jaw Saskatchewan, the city where I go from time to time to drive Saskatchewan's only operating steam locomotive (and no, it is not lettered for the Moose Jaws Lumber Company.)

I wouldn't want to say that we are sensitive about our name but "Walla Walla Washington" doesn't get the laughs here that it might in other places.

Saskatoon is named after the berries that grow in the area.  In Cree, Saskatoon means "early berries."  Saskatoon berries are like blueberries with class.

Jim

Heh, you should visit Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, where I grew up, the location of Intercourse, Paradise, and Blue Ball!

[pdlethbridge]

Jim's our very own professor  who teaches the finer points of ferroequinology.

[Jim Banner]

Jeffery,
Right on about publishing on websites.  Not only can you go from concept to completion in hours instead of months or years, but using more words and photos does not mean more cost for paper and ink.

When you write for paper and ink publications, it is always disheartening when the editors cut out words, sentences, and whole paragraphs, plus a bunch of the photos, so that the article will fit in their idea of how much space it should take.  This is particularly hard on a garrulous old bugger like me.  (My wife tells me that I am a poster boy for On and On and On Anon.)  But I never know how much the reader knows about the subject, so I tend to go overboard with details that will help the neophyte understand and which, I hope, the old hand can skip over.  And when it comes to photos, I tend to be the opposite of paper and ink editors and their "when in doubt, take it out" attitude.  To me, if an extra photo helps just one more person figure out what I am babbling about, then it is worth including.  (Did some unkind person just say that if one more person figured it out, that would make two?)

The other great thing about publishing on the web is being able to go back and make changes and additions.  With books, your errors are there forever, or at least until the next edition.   With web articles, you can make corrections as well as updates when technology changes, suppliers changes, or someone suggests an alternate or better method.

There have been some good ideas come out in this thread.  I particularly liked the comments on putting some of the stuff on Youtube.  That one has really got me thinking!

Jim

p.s. I thought my main purpose on this website was giving PD headaches.