Steam diesel transition era...Coal and sand

[lmackattack]

Ok...I know the large Railroad yards had coal or sand brought in by Rail to service facilitys. the cars would be parked in the yard waiting to be used. I would like to know would there have been short lines or far away points on a rail line that would have had sand and coal trucked in. Im talking 1-2 track facility to servie small steam and 4 axel diesels. small storage coal bins that would hold the capasity to feed 3 or 4 small engines. time frame would be early/mid 50s

Reason I ask is Im putting in a small 2 track fuel island, one track steam the other fuel. holds one steam engine or 2 geeps I have no room to fit a track that a hopper car would use to drop the load, i do have room for a access road for trucks.

thoughts?
Trent

[BillD53A]

Diesels dont require as much of a major facilty as steam.  On the Seminole Gulf in Florida., one guy drives a fork lift and lifts a pallet of sandbox play sand in bags up in the air.  A second guy opens the bags and pours the sand into the diesel's sand fillers.  A local fuel company's tank truck comes around every Tuesday morning and refuels the locos wherever they are parked.
Steam locos required a more extensive facility.  While the facilities seem elaborate to us today they were commonplace at the time.  They were the price of doing business.  First you need water.  If the loco runs out of fuel the fire goes out.  But if it runs out of water, the boiler explodes.  You need a water tank at each loco terminal, at each town and at the bottom and top of every significant hill along the line. 
Then you need an ash pit.  A steam loco's range was determined by the size of it's ashpan.  The pit could be elaborate like the Walthers model or it could have just been a pit between the rails but it had to be there. 
Coal may have been loaded from a coal bunker, or using a steam shovel, or a hoist.
The ET&WNC used a conveyor, the Gainesville Midland had a loading dock at tender deck height and used large wheelbarrows to load coal.  The entire train crew joined in the coal loading operation.  They placed a couple of wooden planks across to the loco's sand box and carried sand to it in buckets.
If your steamers burn oil you can do away with the ashpit and coal bunker and just pump oil out of a tank.
There was once a steam loco that operated around here, that was built in the early 1900's.  It went from a coal burner, to oil, to coal, and ended its days in 1942 burning wood.
You also need somplace with an inspection pit, for inspection, lubrication, and repair of the running gear.
These facilities were neccesary to the operation of a steam locomotive.

[ebtbob]

Trent,

      Kalmbach offers a book called Locomotive Servicing Termnals.   This a  great book and may have what you need to plan any type of facility for your model railroad.

[rich1998]

here is some links about this that you can read. you can save some of the pages to your pc if you know how to use print screen key

http://books.google.com/books?um=1&q=Kalmbach+Locomotive+Servicing+Terminals&spell=1&oi=spell

lex

[SteamGene]

Ash pits and inspection racks were found in yards that had maintenance faciility.  A trackside coaling tower/water tower/sand tower could be quite simple, but a coaling tower would need a service track to dump the coal into the tower. 
Small facilities might well do with dumped coal and a coal mover such as a coal yard had to load dump trucks. 
Generally speaking, every town had a water tower and some sort of coaling facility.  Sanding facilities would be more common in hilly country, less common on the flat. 
Gene

[ebtnut]

Service facilities generally matched the size of the operation - big outfits had coal docks, sand houses, ash pits, etc.  Small outfits made do - the most penurious might suffice with shovels and strong backs for coaling, and a bucket brigade for sand.  The EBT was sort of in-between.  They had the requisite facilities at the Rockhill terminal.  But they also stationed a box car with bags of sand on a siding at Saltillo, the base of the climb up the Broad Top.  Crews who needed to top off would hoist the bags up to the sand domes and dump it in.  There was a water tank about 100 yards further up the track.  There was another tank at Coles, about half-way up the hill, and of course another tank at Robertsdale.  Indicative of the topography and the way the road operated, there were no tanks between Rockhill and Mt. Union. 

[lmackattack]

good info guys... thank you.

  what I will be doing is have a small 2 track service station. something that would be seen at a very small yard. Once used to fully service steam engines but is now just there so the steam engine can get toped off and back home to the larger service aera down the line.  one track is used for steam the other for diesel. Im kinda making it look like steam is on the way out as the diesels are proving themselves and taking over.
one track will have the ash pit and a conveyor to load the steam water spout the other track will have a small fuel oil tank for the diesels. both will share the old sanding tower. My delema is that I could not fit a spur to feed the facility with freight cars...Diesel,coal,sand etc.... I made a gravel road to the service facility that a  truck could use to bring the  odd coal load or diesel fuel sand etc...

[RAM]

Your short line could very well have sand and coal trucked in. Ok the Seminole Gulf in Florida., one guy drives a fork lift and lifts a pallet of sandbox play sand in bags up in the air.  A second guy opens the bags and pours the sand into the diesel's sand fillers.  This was also done with steam locomotives. Anyway a simple sand tower can be used by both steam and diesel and take up very little space.  A water tank does not need to be track side.  You can have a standpipe between the track to service both tracks. A ash pit and inspection pit would be nice but you could also just have steel plates down between the rails. at each loco terminal, at each town and at the bottom and top of every significant hill along the line. 
Then you need an ash pit.  A steam loco's range was determined by the size of it's ashpan.  The pit could be elaborate like the Walthers model or it could have just been a pit between the rails but it had to be there. 
Coal may have been loaded from the ground with a conveyor or high loader.  Short lines did what they had to do as cheap as they could.  Because they had too.

[pdlethbridge]

you could do what conrail did to load coal in 765, use a crane next to the tender and a hopper on the next track.
On the B&M back in the steam days, all end of commuter lines had a turntable or reverse loop and water. The lines were short enough for loco only to need coal and sand on its return to  Boston. Rockport had a reverse loop that is still visible in Google earth but the tracks are gone. Reading and Stoneham had a couple of extra sidings for the trains and Reading had a roundhouse and turntable while Stoneham only had an Armstrong turntable.
Stoneham

Reading

[lmackattack]

this is great info.. thanks.

I was hoping that this project would be somewhat prototipical. I think it will! I will have some pics of the progress tonight.

Trent

[lmackattack]

[SteamGene]

Here's your solution.  Extend the track the GP is on.  It will function as the service track for the coaling station AND the diesel servicing track.  It was built for the coaling station and is now pressed into service to handle diesels.  Put in a water standpipe and put a water tower someplace close by where there is space. 
for coal you can either use a small coaling tower or use the hopper and loader method. 
Complete facility for both steam and diesel. 
I'd remove the modern sand tower, myself.  Put it somewhere else for something else. <g>
Gene

[lmackattack]

Hi Gene

I cant extend the tracks any more as it is already very close to my junction track that runs around the back side of the service facility to the yard..
the modern tower??? is that the taller one or both of them? I was thinking of just keping the small one as a "new tower" added for the diesels but will still be used for the steam untill they leave.
the conveyor is too big I will replace that with a walthers kit.
I still need a water pipe and weather the grounds that the facilityis on.

Trent

[pdlethbridge]

If it's not a main terminal, you could forget the coal loading, ash dump and sand. The pictures I posted only show the very basics of service. A turntable or wye, roundhouse ( which is optional ) water and oil to fill the oil cans

[lmackattack]

Yea it wont be a main terminal as its just too small and I dont have room for it. I figured it would just serve as a small facility for basic needs yet have a little of everthing just in case......