Newest release of GS4 is too slow

[loco4fun]

My old 'Bachmann Plus' GS4 ran pretty well once 'tuned up' and had excellent paint, but lacked wheel bearings for the drivers and tender pickup for DCC.  The newest release is generally an improvement over the previous engine.  The valve gear is nicely rendered, the drive train is better, and the tender has wheel pickups and an LED reverse lamp.
However, the paint is super glossy and gives a child's toy appearance, but the problem I can't resolve is a top speed of only 55 to 60 smph!  This engine in mainline service regularly ran at 80 mph pulling a full passenger train!  This speed is with DC and DCC.  I also swapped out the Bachmann (Lenz) decoder and installed an NCE decoder without improvement in top speed.
I've notified NWSL of the problem to see if they can work up a solution.
My other Bachmann and Bachmann 'Spectrum' engines have a fine speed range. 

Does the 'Bach Man' or anyone have a similar problem or solution?

Thanks,

Bob Fewel

[Chuck S]

Hi Bob,

I have two of the SP Daylight engines. I suppose both of them are both a little glossy but not enough for me to dull coat them (at least for the moment).

I'm not sure how to gauge the speed. Neither one runs at a "full out" speed like some toy models will. I would be curious to know if mine max out at the 55, 60 mph limit or if they are running true to scale.

Hopefully someone will have your answer!

Chuck S

[RAM]

speed in HO is much faster than it looks.

[jbsmith]

out of pure curiosity of my own,,
how do you measure scale speed?
I mean,, what is the mathematical equation?

is it like, say, 2 feet of straight track in X seconds divided by what?

[Nigel]

60 mph = 88 ft/second.

So for HO, (1/87.1); 1 ft per second is very close to 60 mph.  For ease of timing, it would be better to have a longer run.

[lmackattack]

not sure if the GS4 has the same gearing but out of the box my spectrum mountain would do 87MPH with 20 cars in tow. after i repowerd it with a kato drive It does 60MPH max with the same amount of cars. this was tested at the club with a scale speed o meter. I do know the driver size will be diffrent as the GS4 would have a faster top speed with its larger drivers...

[loco4fun]

As I mentioned, my other Backmann and 'Spectrum' engines have normal speed ranges.  Even with the large diameter drivers of the 4-8-4 'Daylight', my engine is still a freight engine for speed. 
This is an 80 mph engine with its' train in tow!!  I'm hoping to see it first hand as it travels back home to Oregon this week!!

[Edo]

I noticed that loco4fun mentioned
"I also swapped out the Bachmann (Lenz) decoder and installed an NCE decoder without improvement in top speed."
I would like to swap the stock decoder for  (Product code 50201) for one with 'bells and whistles' - any suggestions?

[loco4fun]

Edo,
what I've read is the Tsunami TSU-1000 heavy steam would be one choice, but has a chuff like a Berkshire.  The TSU-1000 SP Cab forward may have a more prototypical chuff and can be set to normal from articulated sound.  Both have the horn and whistle of the 4449, but according to what I've read, can be a problem to program for operation with both whistle and horn.
I suggest you listen to both decoders on the Tsunami web site and make your selection--neither one sound quite like the 'real thing' in my observation.

I guess I'll work with the sound when the other problems are solved,

Bob

[wjstix]

As I mentioned, my other Backmann and 'Spectrum' engines have normal speed ranges.  Even with the large diameter drivers of the 4-8-4 'Daylight', my engine is still a freight engine for speed. 
This is an 80 mph engine with its' train in tow!!  I'm hoping to see it first hand as it travels back home to Oregon this week!!

Well actually 60 MPH freight trains are a more modern phenomenon. Steam freights were normally much slower than that, more like 20-30 MPH except for "fast freights" and reefer expresses.

Keep in mind that it's not necessarily a good thing to run trains at prototype speeds on our layouts.

For one thing, if a real train had to go around the equivalent of an HO scale "broad" curve of 30-35" it would have to slow down to about 20 MPH to do so - so seeing a train whizzing around such a curve (or an even tighter curve) at 80 MPH isn't realistic.

Plus, since distances between stations, towns etc. are so compressed on a layout, it makes sense to run slower to allow more time to run between point A and B.

Also, our model trains tend to be much shorter than real ones. A 7 car model passenger train going 35 MPH takes as long to go by say a grade crossing as a prototype 14 car train would going 70.

For me running passenger trains at 30-35 MPH, freights at around 20-25 MPH, and ore trains around 12-15 MPH works out about right.

[loco4fun]

wjstix,
I agree totally with you in running at much slower speeds.  I enjoy watching the 'monkey motion' of steam locos' much more so than a rectangular box running around the rails!
The occasional exception is a very long straight track on our club layout that begs a passenger train to run as she did in the 'golden' days.
My wife and I enjoyed watching the 4449 between Minot and Williston, ND as she pulled 15 privately owned passenger cars on her return trip to Oregon.  She was running 60 mph, just as her fireman said they would.  At that speed the main rods looked slow, but with 80" drivers, she really eats up the rails!!
The big Northerns and little Atlantics often had huge 80 inch drivers that gave them great speed----I just want them capable of their fleet speed, if not their top speed. 
I haven't run slot cars for years, so that's out of my system!!
My motorcycles give me all the 'need for speed' that I need!!!

[lmackattack]

I like slow and fast freights. down at the club  we have about 5 aeras that are flat and run anywhere from 40' to 70' of straight track with no curves.  I like to get my 60 car trains up to around 55MPH and get those side rods excited. I slow to around  30-40 near curves or when passing through large towns but get it back up to speed as soon as I clear. Sometimes I have the acell rate set to the highest point so you can hear it "going to work" to get back up to speed. it also makes the steam engines sing with the changes in speed. (Sound decoder) the club has a max speed of 60MPH and we check this with scale speed o meters. Now on my home layout I do about a max of 25-30 as the curves are 22"radius and mostly industry.

[Chris350]

but according to what I've read, can be a problem to program for operation with both whistle and horn.

My understanding is it's not so difficult set up, but to do so requires a controller that allows function remapping.  A loco the uses the Tsunami cab forward decoder is the Intermountain AC-12.  They set it up so that the whistle is F2 and the horn is F3.

[loco4fun]

Chris350,
have you had a chance to see and hear the Intermountain SP Cab-forward engine?
Our local hobby shop has had one for many months, but because the rear engine doesn't pivot, it still sits in the case.  I've suggested they let one of our three members who would buy the engine try it at our club layout to see if it will make the curves, but they won't have anything to do with it.  It's a beautiful engine and would be a pleasure to see on the rails.
There are several of us who are computer 'geeks' in the club, but other than change CV values, that and the use of 'Decoder Pro' is the limit of what we've done with the current crop of decoders.

Bob

[Chris350]

Chris350,
have you had a chance to see and hear the Intermountain SP Cab-forward engine?
Our local hobby shop has had one for many months, but because the rear engine doesn't pivot, it still sits in the case.  I've suggested they let one of our three members who would buy the engine try it at our club layout to see if it will make the curves, but they won't have anything to do with it.  It's a beautiful engine and would be a pleasure to see on the rails.
There are several of us who are computer 'geeks' in the club, but other than change CV values, that and the use of 'Decoder Pro' is the limit of what we've done with the current crop of decoders.

Bob

Yes I have.  I own one.  Very nice loco.  It will run on well laid 24" inch radius, but wants 36 or so.  Detail is really good.  A note if this engine has been sitting a long time, it's probably a first run.  Unfortunately Intermountain had QA issues with the entire run and are going to have to replace large numbers of them.  They had a problem with the drivers coming unattached from the powered axel on the front engine.  They would go out of quarter at minimum, and in severe cases totally trash the rods.  Also there was something incorrectly set up in the gearing so they did not run at prototypical speed.  Mine ran fast enough though.  I'm on a list to have mine replaced for the second time.  Decoder pro makes it really easy to remap functions.  You need to understand the Tsunami manual however, and that is a real undertaking, since there is so much programmed in to those decoders.  In all I would say of you have good 24 inch or larger curves that loco will do ok.   Once I get mine replaced and have access to a larger layout than my current switching playground, I'll have more to say about it.  The new runs are in the states read to go out.
Chris