Adding DCC to 0 6 0 and 44 tonner

[NMWTRR]

I have a DC Bachmann 0 6 0 switcher and DC 44 Tonner.

They are a few years old, do the Bachmann decoders fit nicely in these great running models.

Also how do you remove the body on the 0 6 0?

Thanks

[Jim Banner]

I have done several of the 0-6-0T locomotives using Digitrax DZ123 decoders but the new DZ125 decoder would be an even better choice.  It includes back EMF control which does wonderful things to steam locomotives at low speed.  There are excellent instructions for taking this locomotive apart and installing a decoder on the Digitrax website at:
http://www.digitrax.com/ftp/bachmann060t.pdf

But don't try to find the decoders they talk about in that 2002 article - they are obsolete and no longer produced.

There is a heart-in-mouth moment when lifting the back of the shell.  It does not seem possible that it can come off without breaking, but it can.  Wiggle the shell around a bit to break the paint seal.

Sorry I cannot give you the same information about the 44 tonner.  The only thing I am aware of (and you probably are too) is that the 44 tonner came in two versions, one with a single motor, and the other with two motors.

Jim

[ABC]

When you say a Bachmann 0-6-0 switcher do you mean the 0-6-0T Saddle Tank Switcher (Product Code: 81811) or the USRA 0-6-0 with tender (Product Code: 50649)?
I'm not sure which you were referring to, but I know Bachmann had earlier releases of the 0-6-0T. The USRA 0-6-0 is probably not worth it as much to install a decoder, its a descent runner, but I think the 0-6-0T runs much better and is a nice little unit.
Some of the 44-tonners have an 8-pin socket I'm not sure if they all do though, but stick with smaller decoders because there probably will not be much space to work with as a lot of space is probably used for the metal weights inside and the motor.

[pdlethbridge]

try here
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Bachmann/GE_44_Ton/Bachman%20GE%2044%20Ton%20Diesel%20Switcher.htm
or here
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Bachmann/0-6-0_Saddle_Tank/Bachman_0_6_0_Saddle_Tank.htm

[rich1998]

do not know about the 0-6-0. right now in the yahoo nce dcc group there is a discussion about the dcc for two motor 44 ton. two people have successfully done a dcc install. i read another forum some months ago someone did a dcc in two motor 44 ton and the decoder smoked after 20 minutes of running. I would measure the motor current first using a dc power pack.
one guy in the nce forum has done two installs with the two motor version using the below article. there are details to watch out for. you can smoke a decoder if not carefull.
it is not like the single motor version.

There is an article in the January 2001 MR on how to do the installation.
lex

[rich1998]

i just looked at my 2001 issue. you should get the magazine. you can do that on the link below.

http://tinyurl.com/yl9bv2t
he uses a 1 amp n scale decoder but makes sure that both motors run correctly by removing them and letting them run without the frame.  you might have to program the decoder to give a little kick to overcome motor cogging so as to not burn up the decoder. good luck
lex

[Jim Banner]

There seems to be a common misconception that if the running current of a locomotive is lower than the decoder's current rating, the decoder will be okay.  Sorry, but that is not so.  The stall current must also be lower than the absolute maximum current rating of the decoder.  That is the second, higher current rating that some manufacturers quote but others do not.

The reason for two different current ratings is because there are two different ways for current to kill a decoder.  One way is for the output transistors to overheat because we ask them to dissipate too much power.  Once we heat them to an internal temperature of 150^o C, they melt internally and are no longer transistors.  Because this type of heating occurs relatively slowly, we can avoid the problem by monitoring circuit temperature and shutting down the decoder if some preset temperature is exceeded.

The second mode of failure also occurs in the output transistors but is much more insidious.  That is failure by exceeding absolute maximum current rating too many times.  It works this way:  each time you exceed the absolute maximum current rating, there is some small, localized damage done inside the transistor.  How much damage depends on many things - how big an over load, how long it lasts, what the internal temperature of the transistors was when the overload occurred, to mention a few.

In light of that new knowledge, lets look at what happens where we first start a locomotive.  The motor is not turning, so during the first motor pulse, the current rises to the stall current of the motor.  If this exceeds the absolute maximum ratings of the transistors, then we create a little bit of damage.  Do that enough times and the transistor fails, rendering the decoder useless.  In its last stages, this type of failure usually results in internal melting of the transistor(s) and release of smoke, so it appears virtually identical to an over temperature type failure.

How many times have we heard people complain that the decoder in their locomotive suddenly failed after working fine for a weeks/months/years?  I am convinced that a good number of those failures were the eventual result of repeatedly exceeding the absolute maximum current rating of the decoder.  In many cases, when questioned, the person will admit that he/she never bothered to measure the stall current of his/her locomotive.

Bottom line, I seem to remember that the fellow who installed an N-scale decoder in his 2 motor 44 tonner, only to have it smoke half an hour later, also mentioned that he measured the stall current of the motors after the event and that it exceeded 2 amps.  Are we surprised?  Will we check the stall current (with both motors stalled!) next time we install a decoder in a 2 motor 44 tonner?

Jim   

[rich1998]

that is why i hold the worm on the motor to stop the motor and get a maximum reading. very quick measurement. . at twelve volts dc none over .5 amps for me but i do not have the dual motor 44 ton. my opnion, with the dual motor, it is a gamble. i have those little tsunami. even those get warm after some running about half spped in my locos but have never shut down on me.
lex

[rich1998]

I have read in a different forum that the old 44 ton shell will fit the new 44 ton frame. with some wise shopping, you can probably find the new 44 ton at a good price. i think micro mark will have them dcc on board this winter for about 65.00. I just looked. there are some dcc ready on ebay but i would wait for the dcc on board version.
lex

[Jim Banner]

Before rushing out to buy a new locomotive, consider the advantages/disadvantages of new versus used.

With a new, DCC on board locomotive, all you need to do is put it on the track.  But with a used analogue only version, you have to first install a decoder.  As a first install, it may take an hour or even two.  If you are experienced, it may still take 15 or 20 minutes.  How much is your hobby time worth?

With a DCC on board locomotive, you are stuck with the decoder that the manufacturer installs.  When you install your own decoder, you get to choose the features you want.  I see both of  NMWTRR's locomotives are switchers.  Switchers respond particularly well to BEMF control because they are used singly at low speed.  BEMF control is now available in economy decoders at little or no extra cost.  For an apples to apples comparison, does the new DCC on board locomotive have BEMF control?

With many people trying to sell perfectly good, used, analogue locomotives so that they can buy new DCC on board locomotives, the price of used analogue locomotives is presently very reasonable, if you are a buyer, but disappointingly low, if you are a seller.  Keep this in mind if you are trying to figure out the economics of a used analogue locomotive plus economy decoder compared to a new locomotive with DCC on board.  If you are as sold on BEMF control as I am, an even more realistic cost comparison would be between a used analogue locomotive and a new DCC on board locomotive because both of them are going to require a new decoder.

If you buy a new DCC on board locomotive, you will have to break it in, at least if you want best performance and maximum life out of it.  If you already have a used locomotive, chances are you have already broken it in and know how well it runs.  We talked about the time savings buying a new DCC on board locomotive.  How does that compare to the time spent breaking in that same locomotive?

Lastly, lets look at the resale value of used locomotives.  A converted locomotive will often fetch a higher price than the same locomotive with factory installed DCC.  This is particularly true if the seller takes the trouble to list the type of decoder and all of its features.  There are many savvy people out there who will know the features based solely on the decoder type but there are a lot more who are looking for a decoder equipped locomotive and want to be told exactly what they are getting.

Bottom line, buy the new DCC on board locomotive if you want it (and can afford it) but at the same time buy a good, economy decoder.  Then spend some time learning how to install decoders by installing your new decoder in your old locomotive.  Then, when you sell your old locomotive, the extra you get because it is decoder equipped will far exceed the price of the decoder.  In all honesty, I must point out that there is a catch to this.  You may (will probably?) find that after installing a decoder, your old locomotive is so much better that you can no long bear to sell it.

Jim

[pdlethbridge]

you can get a 44 tonner with DCC for under $40. here
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/HO_Scale_44_Ton_Switcher_s/2049.htm

[rich1998]

you can get a 44 tonner with DCC for under $40. here
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/HO_Scale_44_Ton_Switcher_s/2049.htm

great link. i forgot about that company. put it in my bookmarks. looks like it is stock.
lex

[rich1998]

in a previous message  i mentioned a mrr magazine article that has a article about this two motor 44 ton. the magazine is not expensive.
the writer said the two motors had a low current draw. He did not bother to mention what the anp draw is.
he used a digitrax n scale 1 amp decoder. he did not say which one. there are probably better ones now. he used n scale for a smaller size decoder.
the question that begs asking, was there ever any problems after running for a while.
again, with a twelve volt dc power pack and a multimeter, you can find out what the amp draw is. Very simple. And we will all have a number to go by. Right now we are all guessing.

lex

[kamerad47]

I have a 44 ton DCC I would like to a sound any help with decoders with sound?

[rich1998]

I have a 44 ton DCC I would like to a sound any help with decoders with sound?

instead of hijacking this thread, you should start a new thread with the appropriate wording in the subject. your question could get lost here. Some people will probably not read this thread anymore.
lex