Hornby DCC

[Cooped]

Hi

I'm still in the dream/fantasize stage of my layout and plan to wire for DCC. My question is, as I'm a Brit living here in the US I want to be able to run both British Hornby and US locomotives (that should make some of the purists shudder!), can they both run on the same DCC systems?

Thanks
Dan

[Jim Banner]

Hornby with NMRA type DCC decoders will run on any NMRA type DCC system, including Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, Bachmann E-Z Command and Bachmann Dynamis to name just a few.

If your Hornby locomotives are older ones fitted with Hornby Zero 1 decoders, the only DCC system presently available that will run both them and NMRA type DCC is the ZTC 511.  See http://www.sbxmodelrail.co.uk/pdf/ZTC%20511%20Manual%204.02.pdf page 48.
If you do not have locomotives fitted with Zero 1 decoders, they you would be better to stick to a North American DCC system, or imports such as Lenz who have a good N.A. dealer network.

If the Flying Scotsman could come to North America and run around the continent in tourist service in the real world, then what is the problem with running British trains along with North American ones in the model world?  Most of us do such things, like running ancient steam along with modern diesels.

Jim 

[Jhanecker2]

I suspect that would depend on what the output of the transformer was for the Hornsby Equipment . If they both run on the same output voltage and the decoders are similar it could be possible.  I have converted Maerklin Coaches to operate on my DC layout ,but I have not opened the cars to see how they were internally wired . I just converted the wheels to DC type insulated wheelsets and converted to Knuckle couplers easily because they had NEM coupler sleeves. John II. 
P.S. They were a set of Hogwart Express Cars and I converted a Bachmann Hogwarts Express tender to a knuckle coupler to pull them . Color doesn't match but they run fine. J2.

[Jhanecker2]

Good Afternoon : I thought I would See Jim Banner on this topic . I went to the Hornby Site to see what they had in DCC and there description sounded similar to North American DCC. That ZTC 511 site was very informative , though I did not read all of it.  Got to run to check how my ribs are doing in the grill and throw on the London Broil ,back later.  John II

[renniks]

DCC is DCC--there is only one (global) standard system but different makers change around some of the 'bells and whistles'. Like any electronic equipment DCC is evolving with extras functions being added, but the decoders becoming smaller in physical size.
So long as the loco is designed to run on 2 rail with 12volts DC supply to the track, it will run on DCC when a DCC decoder is fitted.

Eric UK

[Jim Banner]

Actually, there have been and still are a number of Digital Command Control systems.  The Hornby Zero 1 that I referred to was just one of the early ones that are now obsolescent but still in use.  If memory serves, the gentleman who developed the Hornby Zero 1 DCC system went on to develop or help develop the Lenz DCC system on which the NMRA DCC system is based.

Another DCC system that predates the NMRA type DCC but is still very active is the Motorola Trinary DCC system used by Marklin and others.  Marklin would be unhappy to hear that their system is not standard around the globe particularly as it is sold in many, many countries, possibly as many countries as NMRA type DCC.  It is an important enough DCC system that Digitrax DCC equipment was designed to operate both NMRA DCC and Motorola Trinary DCC on the same track at the same time.

Eric is correct when he says

So long as the loco is designed to run on 2 rail with 12volts DC supply to the track, it will run on DCC when a DCC decoder is fitted

which applies in Dan's case.  But this omits one important factors that could affect Dan - the type of DCC decoder installed must match the type of DCC system.  Dan has not yet told us if he is looking at buying new Hornby trains or whether he already has some old, used ones.  In that case, running into a locomotive fitted with a Zero 1 decoder is a very real possibility.  By all means, if they are new, install NMRA type DCC decoders, the ones we usually refer to simply as DCC.  But if they are used, it would not be wise to assume that the any decoders inside them are automatically NMRA type DCC.

And before the high railers and large scalers come after us, let's remember that DCC also works with motors up to about 24 volts, with ac motors, and with 3 rail track.  And so do some of the other DCC systems which are neither NMRA type nor compatible with it.

I don't normally talk about alternate forms of DCC on this forum but Dan, for whom I went into all the gory details, did title the thread "Hornby DCC" and did ask if Hornby and US locomotives could both be run on the same DCC systems.  (Note the "s"  And thanks Dan for the opportunity to talk a bit about other systems for a change.)

Jim

[Cooped]

Thanks to everyone who has responded here. It never ceases to amaze me the wealth and breadth of knowledge people on this forus have.

So far my Hornby collection is limited to the old Inter-City 125 train I've had since I was 8, a used 0-6-0 pannier tank I bought off ebay and a new 'Sir Nigel' Gresley bought recently. I have a few Bachmann US locomotives and one Proto 2000 2-10-2. One of the Bachmann has DCC on board, all others, including the new Hornby, are labelled as DCC ready. I made a point of going DCC ready to cover whatever wiring system I eventually went for. Guess that was a good decision. Hopefully it will be mainly new purchases in the future, but I am hoping to take posession of some of my Grandfathers old OO Hornby.

I'll go for installing NMRA decoders and using a US system. When, I don't know, right now my son and I are enjoying running trains over the 'Plywood Plains', past Paper Towel mountain and through 'unmade house model gorge'.

Jim, that would have been a wonderful sight, the Flying Scotsman on it's US tour I'd love it to happen again, but something tells me that's unlikely. I did see it run once as a child, a day out with my grandparents, as so many of my childhood train experiences were.

Our model railway here is going to be a wonderful international mix, with a good dose of Thomas and Friends. To quote another great knowledge base on this forum 'Rule Number One: It's Our Railroad.  Rule Number Two: Refer to Rule Number One.' - Yampa Bob.

[renniks]

Jim,

My reply was specific to the question asked----running US and Hornby stock together on DCC.
In his last post Dan states that all but one(already DCC fitted) of his locos are DCC ready. They are wired to suit the fitting of NMRA decoders--possibly with NMRA sockets.
I am aware of the other types of 'DCC' systems but assume that when anyone is talking about DCC in US or UK stock in HO/OO, they are talking about NMRA DCC. Zero 1 never took off and can't really be bracketed with such as Marklin.
I expect that his Grandfathers locos are also suitable for conversion; unless they are the original (collectors fodder) Hornby Dublo running on Litho printed tinplate roadbed with three rails. Since Dan was only 8 when he got an 'Intercity', I doubt that his grandad is old enough to have seen Dublo.

Eric UK
82 y.o.a. but counting backwards since retirement 25 years ago. 

[Jim Banner]

I had a fellow bring me two Hornby Dublo sets a couple of years ago.  He wanted DCC decoders installed in them so he and his son could run them together.  While that is technically feasible, I discouraged him because of the sets' antique value and because of the high cost and limited supply of additional pieces for these trains.  In the end, I traded a North American set for the set he had recently acquired and he kept the set that had been his father's or grandfather's as a display piece.  The set I took in trade is presently on display at our local museum.

There are still a lot of Hornby Dublo trains around, along with the three rail track, turnouts, and crosses.  But they can be expensive.  I was watching one auction for a Sir Nigel Gresley set but it went for 195 pounds with shipping, which is something like $350.  Way out of my price range.

I remember seeing these trains for sale in the 1950's and at one time considered selling my MARX trains to buy some.  But my dad was against the idea, so I never did.  But I still have a fondness for them.

Jim

[Cooped]

My Grandad unfortunately passed away some 14 or 15 years ago. His train collection is with my uncle currently. He was certainly old enough to remember Hornby Dublo, he had a nice collection of some old Hornby (O gauge I think) three rail stuff. The OO gauge stuff I'm thinking about was probably bought new in the 70s. I'm not sure if I would want to convert any of them to DCC, their sentimental value may mean they stay boxed.

[renniks]

Cooped,

You didn't say how big your layout will be. I have a small 2 section portable layout with the track power circuit connected to short pieces of brass studding sticking out of one side. Power can be supplied from either a DC or an EZ DCC controller whose o/p leads are terminated with miniature crocodile clips. Just connect the one that suits the locos I wish to run at the time.
For non-sound DCC, TCS supply some of the cheapest decoders on the market, plus most of their N scale versions have high enough current ratings for use on HO (and On30) locos.

Eric UK

[Cooped]

Eric

I'm not really sure how big the layout will be in the end. I've built a 10' * 8' table with a duck under to the center (it's basically an 8' * 4' with a 2' wide extension running out from one end and back to the other end). It's in the basement, which is unfinished right now. I should finish the basement before I get too far with the layout so I don't have to do the layout too much damage in order to finish the basement (that should also win points with the wife also!). It may not get any bigger than the 10' * 8' thing, but knowing me when I finally get to building it properly it will probably all change.

Dan

[Cooped]

Trying to post a picture for the first time. Let's see if this works....

[Cooped]

Wahoo!

[Jim Banner]

It looks like it is going to be a fun winter for both of you.

Jim