Question on laying track down on things other than the corkbed.

[Robertj668]

Hi Everyone.
I think I am going to make the switch from the EZ track (eBay here I come) to a track without the roadbed included. 
In the past (in the early 80's) I used the cork bed that you would split and lay down and nail.  I see it is still in use now.  I did not like it.  I did not like it because I was not good at it.
While I was at one of my local Hobby shops yesterday they had a layout demonstrating the different types of building products.  The demonstrated the cork roadbed, the black roadbed and an area with no roadbed. It looked about 3/8 of an inch thick it looked like it comes in sheets and is cut to suit your need. I failed to ask them what it was. As I was on the drive home I said to myself hey I could do that.
So here is my question.
What are the people on the message board using under their track? What people like or dislike.
Thank you in advance to all who respond
Robert
PS I as some of you may know this all started when I was having problems with my switches on my Offtrack.  And on their People gave some good recommendation on what track to go to. Have been reading on what type of track people are using and I would not be surprised that is one on my next questions.

[jonathan]

Robert,

I used good old fashioned cork roadbed and flex track (mostly).  I didn't glue the roadbed down.  I tacked it down with 1/2-inch brads.  This came in very handy when I changed my mind in track placement (more than once).  I have also used EZ track.  I got some in my Acela set.  I don't like waste, so I found a way to incorporate it in my layout.  There are a few spots (tunnels and hidden trackage) where I used no roadbed at all.

Well, there's your first response...

Hope it helps,

Jonathan

[Robertj668]

Jonathan

Thanks for the information. I know I have said this before.  But I love your layout!

Robert

[jonathan]

Thanks, just don't look underneath.  My wiring would make Jim write a new manual.  Oh... I have seen an old Model Railroader video wherein a modeler made his own roadbed using 1/4-inch-thick wood (pine I think).  It looked sturdy, but much more woodworking than I would be willing to do.

Regards,

Jonathan

[jward]

my preference has always been for pine roadbed, but it is no longer made.
like you i have triad cork and didn't like it. i have also tried homasote and found that it doesn't handle temperature changes or humidity well.

right now, i am laying my track on pine board, without any roadbed. it is the most dimensionally stable, and strong, thing i've found thus far.

[Robertj668]

Jward

It was Homasote that they used. What part of the country are you in?  Where did you have the layout? Do you have any pictures of your work on the pine board? 

Robert

[pdlethbridge]

My track is laid directly on homasote. Works great

[jward]

Jward

It was Homasote that they used. What part of the country are you in?  Where did you have the layout? Do you have any pictures of your work on the pine board? 

Robert

i am in pittsburgh, pa, where most houses have a cellar or basement, but it is often a cool damp place.  it is usually not well heated in the winter, unless somebody is down there. that is usually the biggest room in the house, and most layouts in this area are there.

my current layout is in the living room as my current apartment doesn't have a basement. it is a much more constant environment as far as temperature and humidity are concerned.

don't have the photos posted online yet, as the latest layout is in the early stages of construction. i will post them to my flikr account when i get the time, of the various phases of construction.

[Robertj668]

Jward

We live in Keller which is near Fort Worth TX and our layout is in our front room.  So I thing the Homasote will be fine here.

I am one step closer to getting new track.

Robert

[CNE Runner]

Robert - I am now into micro layouts (industrial/switching) and no longer use roadbed. I glue to track (not the turnouts) directly to the Styrofoam via caulk. Should I change my plans, I can easily slide a putty knife under the track and remove it without damage.

My past two layouts (not micros) used cork roadbed. The secret with cork roadbed is to draw a center line down the middle of your track (if you have dry-laid the track just mark between the ties). After splitting the cork material down the middle align the nonangled side along your marks and nail or glue it down. The other piece is placed against the first and you are ready to install the track. One point: it pays to lightly sand the shoulder of the angled side so that ballast sticks to it realistically. Model Railroader has lots of information on reliable track and publish a booklet called How To Build Realistic Reliable Track. This publication has a section on quiet roadbed.

Hope this helps...try it on a small section of scrap.
Ray

[ebtnut]

There is a product available called Homabed that is basically 1/4" think Homasote with milled roadbed edges.  It is also slotted part-way through so it will bend to curves like cork.  Homasote's advantage is that it holds nails and spikes well, but is not as hard as pine or other woods.  It can also be sanded, unlike cork, to deal with minor lumps and bumps.  If you are concerned about expansion and contraction, paint the Homasote with grey paint after it is glued down and you should have no problems.  There.  Don't forget, though, that your substrate (plywood or whatever) may also be subject to moisture issues, perhaps even more so than the Homasote.  

[Robertj668]

Thanks on the great input everyone.  From the responses I am getting it looks like no on is using the One piece black roadbed?  I like the idea on not gluing down the turnouts like Ray said I guess that is to help pull them up if needed and not damaging them.

I am looking at the Walthers Catalog and am dreaming of nice new track. But again I will post that later maybe tonight.

One thing comes to mind when I read these responses is that I am really glad my wife let me build the layout in the house and not in the garage!
So I thank my wife.  Thank you Honey!

Robert

[Jim Banner]

I have used two type of black, foam roadbed.  They both came in rolls.  One was like double sided carpet tape - apply sticky side down, strip off the paper, put on the track.  The other required glue and for that I used the specific spray glue recommended.  I do not recommend either of them. 

On one, I used mostly flex track and two years later it is still moving around.  The worst is at turnouts - even though the switch machines are mounted to plywood glued to the bottom of the 1-1/2" foam that forms the top of the table, the turnouts themselves keep shifting around, making maintenance a nightmare.

On the other, I used sectional track where possible and Atlas turnouts with their attached switch machines.  This worked better but there was still some shifting where I used some flex track.  After I ballasted the track, the shifting stopped.  Unfortunately, the water spray and the glue/water mix seemed to facilitate the shifting of the the track and parts that were properly aligned in the evening when the ballast was applied were permanently gibbled the next morning when the glue had dried.  Black Foam Roadbed 2, Jim 0.

My best results over the years have been with track glued to cork glued to 1/2 or thicker plywood.  To save money for more important things (like new locomotives) I usually cut my own cork, and have found that square edges work just fine.  And  I normally use spruce sheathing grade plywood - it is softer than fir and half the price of sanded fir.  I cut strips of subroadbed, typically 3" wide and set them on top of risers, making joints either at the risers or with scrap pieces glued and screwed on underneath.  Cutting is a real pain with a keyhole saw, not so bad with a sabre saw, and easy with a band saw.  If the joints do not align well, then I use a plane or a belt sander, the former if my wife is around, the latter if I am working alone (she doesn't like the sound.)  With risers 12" apart, this subroadbed is strong enough to walk on, although kneeling on a piece of foam rubber over the tracks is more common.  For a long straight, it is possible to put risers farther apart and put a strip of the same plywood on edge under the subroadbed.  If a grade starts or ends on that long piece of subroadbed, then the edge of the support plywood can be cut at the radius of the vertical transition curve.  Under yards, I usually use a single piece of plywood large enough for the yard.  The last step of preparing the subroadbed is to draw the track centerline on it.

Once the subroadbed is ready, I glue on cork, usually with Weldbond.  I spread it on the bottom of the cork and on the top of the subroadbed, spreading it with a scrap of cardboard or styrene.  I like split cork because you can lay the edge of one piece to line up with the track centerline, then later add the second piece to line up with the first.  I used to use sewing pins to hold the cork in place which the glue dried, many many of them.  Then I tried bricks but they always seemed to be in the way when I wasn't using them and I could never find enough when I was using them.  Besides it was hard to look through them to see if the cork was still aligned (where is Superman when you need him?)  Most recently, I have been using a cable stapler for the job.  This thing shoots 1/2" staples with an "omega" in the middle that is designed to hold video cable in place.  They hold the cork down very well while the glue dries and the loop makes them very easy to hook out when they are no longer needed.

Cork does sand if you want to sand it.  A piece of 60 grit sandpaper over a wood block does just fine.  But white glue doesn't stick to sanding dust very well, so the next step, if you sand, is to vacuum up the dust.  And finally it is time to lay the track.  Make sure the ends of the rails and clean and bright and that the rail joiners are in good shape. I am a little paranoid when it comes to this - with used sectional track, I remove and discard all the rail joiners, clean the ends of the rails with a wire brush in a Dremel tool (USE EYE PROTECTION!!) and install new joiners.  This makes soldering the sections of track together a real snap.  Soldering joints is something I like to do on all curved track and most straight track.  If the straight track is really long, I like to leave unsoldered joints every 6 feet or so to allow for expansion/contraction.  With flex track, I always solder the joints before laying it on curves to assure that the rails flow nicely from section to section.  But we are getting ahead of ourselves.  When putting the track down, I like to spread glue on top of the cork and set the ties down into it.  With split cork, it is easy to position the centerline of the track over the center joint of the cork (which is over the centerline you drew on the roadbed.)  I hold the track in place with Atlas track nails driven in with a modeller's hammer or pushed in with pliers.  This is where the spruce plywood really shines.  It is soft enough to push the thin track nails into and strong enough to hammer them in.  Sometimes there are no holes where I want to put a nail.  That is what pin vises and small drills are for.

Next comes the soldering, adding feeders, ballasting, painting the rails, cleaning them, and finally running trains.  But all that is a different subject.

Jim

[Robertj668]

Jim
I was ready to turn the page and then you said.. "that's a different subject" Well have to start that thread someday soon. I had to read the response a few time to soak it all in. Well I am sorry to hear about the bad experiences with the black roadbed and it looked promising.

I like the detail on how to lay everything down. I will have to keep it on hand for reference when I am ready.  I need to figure out on the soldering thing with the track.  I am no good at the soldering thing.

I noticed that you use Atlas track. I went to the Hobby Shop today they had Peco, Atlas, Bachmann and another one too. I like the switches on them. I guess Jim I guess that you use the under the table type of switch control.

Funny after all the this i am leaning back towards the Bachmann track again.
What I may do is buy some Atlas track with a switch or two and run the trains and take it from there.  Yes that sound like a waste of money but it may be a cost saving idea too.

Robert

[jonathan]

Robert,

Three years ago I knew nothing about the soldering thing.  I am not great at it, but now I get away with it well enough that the trains run and the lights work.  Hang in there, it's not that bad once you get use to it.

Regards,

Jonathan