Bachmann's Figure 8 Pier Expansion Pack

[s1199w]

Hello,

I am a greenie to the model train world and just bought my son the Overland starter HO scale train.  I also bought the figure 8 expansion pack with the pier system to make a bridge.  Once I had it up and running, the train does not have enough power to make it to the top of the bridge, not even without the freight cars attached.  Is this not meant for this train, or is the pier system not meant for any HO train?

Thanks. 

[Chris350]

Prototypically trains only climb 2-4% grades (2 feet rise in 10 feet horizontal travel).  If the piers in this set are to close together you may be trying to make  the loco climb to steep a grade.  Have you tried spacing them out further?  Also how rapid is the transition from flat to climbing? You might be losing wheel traction at that point.  I have no experience with this set, so I don't know how the spacing of the piers is dictated.  I suspect many folks have used these and eventually they got the train to climb the grade.  It may simply require some finagling...
As a point of comparison, if you have a chance at your train dealer, look at the Woodland Scenics grade sets.  They are typically over 16 feet long to get the train up and back down a 4" change of elevation.

[simkon]

I think its a combination of the fact that your grade is too steep and your locomotive is not the greatest. So the solution would be lowering the grade (a more gradual change in height) or obtaining a little better locomotive.

[Joe Satnik]

Dear s1199w,

How many curve sections and how many straight sections in your figure 8?

Thanks. 

Joe Satnik

[Michigan Railfan]

I have Bachmanns pier set. Have the piers where each track section meet. Have where the connnectors are in the middle of the pier. It should work then.

[s1199w]

The expansion pack came with 8 pieces of 18" radius curved and 6 pieces of 9" straight E-Z Track.  I followed the instructions and put the piers at each joint along the track.  I mixed this with the existing track I have which is 12 curved and 5 straight to make a figure 8 over/under set.  After the train would not make it up the bridge, I removed all of the 2 tallest piers and it still wouldn't make it.  The wheels just spin and spin and never get the contact with the track to make it.  Maybe it is just a weak locomotive.  Thanks for the comments.

[Hellhound]

I have an old (1992) over and under figure 8 set with piers just like that. It came with a diesel locomotive with only one driven truck and rubber traction tires on two of the four drive wheels. It was a pretty steep climb but it always made it to the top until the traction tires stretched out and spun off, that leaves the grooved wheels with little or no traction. I don't know if Bachmann still uses traction tires on any of their newer locos. You might check and see if there two wheels grooved for rubber traction tires that may be missing. I have several new diesel locos and a berkshire. They are all wheel drive and heavy with no traction tires. I have never run my new locos on the over under layout since long ago, I removed the bridge and now use a 60 degree crossing track and run it flat. 

[Joe Satnik]

Dear s1199w,

I would count the terminal re-railer as a straight, giving 6 straights from the Overland set. 

The curves from both sets (overland and add-on sets) should be identical (= 18" radius).   (Lay one over the other to confirm.)       

Two directions to take here, the track and the locomotive. 

1. Track

Bachmann  designs, manufactures and markets track.  Emphasis on "markets".  Note that I did not say "tests".

The geometry of their figure 8 doesn't make mathematical sense to me, unless their diagrams are different than a pure figure 8.  (Same # of sections turning left as right, same # of straight sections on both straight legs.)

Are there significant gaps and kinks in the figure 8 layout? 

Can you tell me the exact sequence that the complete figure 8 track sections are laid out in?  (Non-working sequence example:  8 curve left, 4 straight, 8 curve right, 4 straight, connect ends.)

2. Locomotive  (Next post.)

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[Jhanecker2]

Good Morning All: Please Note the Overland Limited is supposed to operate on 22" radius track and you probably do need run it on a 2% grade or less.
running it on 18" track may cause  binding .

[Joe Satnik]

Dear Hellhound,

Your 60 degree crossing is an excellent idea.  Can you give the complete recipe for that figure 8?

Dear s1199w,

What is the length and width of your table-top?  Did the set run well on the flat oval?

Dear Jhanecker2,

My old 2001 catalog shows 18" radius curves in the set.  Newer sets may be different.

s1199w says "12 curves" (from the O.L. set) which indicates 18" radius curves (12/circle).  22"R curves are 16/circle. 

Of course, wider radius curves would work better.

I'm guessing that the figure 8 add-on pack (new since 2001, as it is not in the 2001 catalog), has never been tested (for fit and function) with any set, let alone the very long Overland Limited set.  It's been nicely marketed, though.

If we can tweak the layout, locomotive and cars, we might be able to get at least a partial train running for s1199w and son.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[Hellhound]

The original Bachmann over under fig 8 consisted of twenty 18" curves, five 9" straights, two 6" straights and a 9" straight bridge with a set of 28 piers to elevate the bridge. I determined that the bridge crossed the lower level at a 60 degree angle. I got an atlas code 100 60 degree crossing and four 3" straights. I removed the 9" straight section and the bridge from the center of the layout and replaced them with the crossing and the 3" straights. The 6" straights are at both ends of the fig 8 loop to get the proper spacing for the cross over. This measured 82"x43" and fit on a 4'x8' table. ...To build this, start with the crossing then one 3" straight, one 9" straight, 5 curves left, then a 6" straight, 5 more curves left. one 9" straight, one 3" straight, 60 degree crossing, one 3" straight, one 9" straight, 5 curves to the right, one 6" straight, 5 curves right, one 9" straight, one 3" straight and connect to the crossing to complete the loop.  ...I also could get a 90 degree crossing by building the 18" curves with only 9 sections, remove the 6" sections at the far ends of the fig 8 and putting a 90 degree crossover with four 6" straights in the middle of the fig 8. The 90 degree layout is 38"x86" and fits a 4'x8' table. My old equipment ran good on either layout. When I ran new locos and rolling stock with knuckle couplers there were constant derailments at the crossing. I discovered that the trip pins on the couplers had to be adjusted upward with a pair of coupler pliers to clear the crossing. No more problems after adjusting the trip pins.   

[Jhanecker2]

Good Morning All : I set up some track to test my track , locomotives , and rolling stock and also to get together an inventory list .  CPU of the house computer went down , and had to be replaced . Had not got around to backing up the data to the newly installed backup drive . Anyway, I assembled the figure 8 expansion set Item # 99934 bridge pier set to a oval of  22"radius curves separated by  five lengths of  9" straight track per side. I set the piers between each of the track sections , starting with the tallest two piers beneath a nine inch straight terminal rerailer and the rest tapering down and away from that point. Having completed that I proceded to test all the equiment I had available and was able to run the Overland Express Limited up the incline and down again with its full complement of freight cars & cabboose.   I will admit the locomotives did labor on the up grade but did complete the circuit. I also ran the OEL with a set of Heavy Weight Passenger Cars (4 cars)in UP Yellow , Bachmann of course. I then tested 3 Hogwarts Express Locos some with 6 cars . I then tested the diesel Locos EMD 38-2 , EMD 40 , and  EMD F s about 12 in total. My biggest problem was unintentional uncoupling of the cars from the locos and each other. I suspect that the incline angle is on the borderline of being too steep and that the transition from incline to straight has an effect on the couplers.  If I were going to set up a permanent layout I would double the number of piers and shim up half of them and make the incline longer and reduce the grade by half . The other alternative is to use foam incline sets made by Woodland Scenics in their terrain line products .  John II

[Hellhound]

I won't even try to run new equipment up and down an incline because I have enough trouble keeping the rail cars coupled on level track. My older equipment had the horn hook couplers and never uncoupled on inclines or rough track. The knuckle couplers that have become standard on all new equipment are a royal pain. Can't keep them coupled unless your track is level and perfect because there is no shelf in the coupler to keep them from slipping up and out of the other coupler. I have some new rolling stock that refuses to stay coupled with another brand of rolling stock because the knuckle couplers don't play well together. The horn hooks would stay coupled even in a derailment. The horn hooks were considered big and ugly and couldn't be uncoupled with a magnet but they were more reliable which equals a lot less frustration.