Does anyone have experience using the CIRCUITRON Signaling system

[Robertj668]

Hi all
I want to create a realistic signaling system for my layout.  Is crossing signals, Block signals etc. that actually work.  I ran across the Circuitron company through Walther's and I am curious if anyone has experience with this or any other system.

I am running HO in DCC with all of my switches in DCC as well. I also just ordered the Digitrax Super Chief 8 amp starter set with the new DT402! I must thank my local Hobby shop as he is letting me pick it up and make monthly payments on it till it is paid off! I love my Hobby shop!

Thanks for your help.

Robert

[jsmvmd]

Dear Robert,

Would suggest you do a search for stuff "Atlantic Central" has written in this forum.  I seem to recall he might have some comments about this.

Best Wishes,

Jack

[Robertj668]

Jack
Thanks for idea.  I did a search before on the message board for signaling questions.  However this time I did it again and adding a specific author learn some nice information. 

I have doing research on their website which took a while to find.  They had a PDF that had good info.  But i always like talking to someone who has worked with it or know about it.

[Jim Banner]

Now that you are going seriously into DCC you might want to consider JMRI (Java Model Railroad Interface.)  In addition to Decoder Pro for simplifying decoder programming, they also have Panel Pro which is, in part, a computer based method of controlling signals.  I have not done a comparison between the cost of the hardware to support Panel Pro versus the cost of Circuitron.  But it strikes me that installing a hardware based system gives you a signal system that is pretty inflexible and only operates signals.  Installing a software based system allows you to easily change how your signals work and can form the basis for more complex operations.

Whatever method of signal control you decide to use, it is important to under stand the three different types of signals you usually run into: block signals, interlocking signals, and warning signals.  Block signals are meant to keep trains apart on long stretches of track.  Interlocking signals are used to control traffic in complex trackwork where not only the sequences of trains but the sequence of the signals controlling them are important.  Warning signals stop road traffic while trains are passing, and may also include the signals on turnouts that warn enginemen which way the switches are set.

Jim

[Robertj668]

Jim
I was hoping you would have some input on this discussion.  The JMRA I see can be used with Digitrax. I would love to eventually have computer control.

I was afraid to do signals initially because i did not understand what they meant.  After doing research on the web and a great used book I found that was by Model Railroader called "The ABC's of Model Railroading". First addition was in 1978 and now it is in its 8Th addition.  There is a section of on Signals that was perfect. I think I would need mainly Block signals and an interlocking and an order singal or two.

when i get the final track plan I would love ideas on where to place them!

[jward]

since you mentioned train order signals.....

these would be the easiest to model. they were usually located on the suilding where the crew would get their train orders, a station or signal tower. often they were semaphore type, and two sided. in later years some lines replaced them with regular signals mounted in the same location.

the signal indications were set by the telegraph operator inside and had nothing to do with track occupancy. the indications used were:

green: no train orders at this station.

yellow: form 19 order for your train. these were hooped up to the train crew on the fly and the train didn't have to stop. form 19s were usually about speed restrictions, or set up meets with opposing trains at locations further down the line.

red: form 31 order, which required the crew to stop and sign for it. a form 31 often set up a meet with an opposing train at that station, or some other place before the next train order office. as such it was imperative that the crew read and understand the form 31 before proceding further.

on a model railroad these signals can be operated with a simple rotary switch.....

[PaulDeS]

Robert,

I've installed Circuitron components to run (ie, stop at the ends and reverse,  and also stop at intermediate points, with delays) a trolley down the main street in my layout town. The hardware ran, without problems, the first time I fired it up after installation. The installation itself wasn't difficult and I'm very happy with the results.
I have been planning to go back to Circuitron to setup crossing signals (as soon as I have the time and can find the crossing gates I want). Jim's suggestion of a software controlled system would certainly give you move flexibility so I guess you'll need to determine how much flexibility you need/want.

Paul

Paul

[Robertj668]

jward
Thanks for the great information.  I was having a hard time finding information about train order signals.

Paul
I have not decided on computer control yet. I am glad to hear from someone that has worked with this system.  I found that Digitrax also has a similar system as well.  I love the ideas of the train gates coming down automatically as the train passes or a Block signal telling a train to stop or go or use caution.  I want our layout to be "Protoclose" not exact prototypical.

Robert

[Jim Banner]

I should have mentioned that signaling is not necessarily all hardware or all software.  It can be mixed.  Crossing gates, flashing warning lights, or even old fashioned wig-wags are basically stand alone signals.  Their action does not depend on trains that are far away or that have to interact with one another.  All they need is a train approaching the road crossing they control.  This is where a stand alone circuit board works well.

I forgot about order boards on stations.  They were manually operated and as jward points out, manual operation on our model railroads is the logical way to go.  I helped build a couple of these in large scale where we operated them with Tortoise and similar stall motor switch machines.  I don't know if that approach would work in H0 but I am seriously considering it in 0_n30.  The only difference would be that instead of a semaphore signal, I would like to use a ball signal.  It seems that ball signals, like semaphores, were used in both two and three aspect versions - ball down, or hidden = stop for orders; ball at half mast = hoop up orders; ball at top of mast = no stop required, the track is yours (origin of the term "high balling.")

This brings up another point - what kind of signals you want to use.  We talked about functions, but just as semaphores, balls, and rotating signals were all used at stations, so were different types of signals used out on the line.  Semaphores (both lower and upper quadrant), search lights, ones that look like inverted traffic lights, those 7 light signals used by PRR (I don't remember their name) and probably many more.  You may want to select a type appropriate to the time and place you are modelling, or if you are free lancing, at least appropriate to the time period.  A ball signal would be  outlandish on a railroad set in the last hundred years and a search light signal would be as out of place on an 1880's wild west railroad as the station master's wrist watch.

I really like your term "protoclose."  Mind if I borrow it from time to time?

Jim

[Robertj668]

Jim

Most recent discussions with my six year old son at the dinner table are about what era shall we do. I may need to make a separate post for that one.  We love the PRR,  B&O.  We love ATSF, BNSF UP.

My son loves the steam Engine,  Big Boy, Cab forward (that has caused me to change the layout from 18' to 22") PRR K4 4-6-2.

But he also loves the modern Amtrak and Freight engines too.

Simply we are fans of railroading.

The layout is 2 4x8's in "U" shape I Will add a picture later.

What I though we could do is this.
Modern era but the town will be "left in the 50's" My parents house is 130 yrs old but outside is their 2009 Honda. And with that thought I think anything can be done.

I think the layout could have time period neighborhoods.  I am leaning toward search light or maybe color light.  Both are simple.
I would love a semaphore but that my look too out of place.

I want the railroad to realistic but fun.  I use the thought, How canyou have an electric street car without the wires.  Then I read that there is one, but I forget where right at this moment.

Feel free to use "Protoclose".

[jward]

search light signals (also called bullseyes) are not that simple electrically. the ones i've seen use a bi polar led and require ac current and some pretty fancy electronics to work. the colour light signals would be the way to go. conrail started to replace many of the position light signals (the 7 light signals jim referred to) with colour lights arranged in a triangular form. atlas makes beautiful models of those signals.
b&o used a unique type of signal called a colour position light, which is hard to duplicate in HO, and has some pretty bizarre, non standard signal indications. b&o's sister roads, western marylandand c&o, both used colour light "traffic signal" types with oblong targets. wm used the same type, with rectangle targets, for train order signals.

any of the colour light types would work with a basic signal circuit, the prr type would need additional circuitry to control the center light which in later years was not always lit.

[Robertj668]

Jeffery
I do like the Color light ones too.  And today I get an email from MTH on a crossing singal system.  A little expensive about 179 a set but i would only need 1 or two like this.  I looks like it is complete and needs no other components.

I am just glad I have not committed to a final track plan yet.

Again everyone thanks for the great info.

Robert