Questions on how to add Logging and How to add coaling to a layout?

[jsmvmd]

Great Thread !

Here in the mountains around Altoona, I have a client in the Portage/Munster area who mined coal by hand with his Father and brothers, ~40 inches high mine shafts dug by hand into the soft rock.  They laid track, pushed in the coal car, dug coal by hand and then slipped on a sling arrangement, and on their hands and knees pulled out the loaded car, probably a two axle job. Not sure how much coal they could pull out thata way.  But they made a living, and nicer people you would not meet anywhere.  Give you the shirts off their backs !

This might be a very rustic two or three man operation to model, and perhaps it is for me !

Do you think a micro layout like CNERunner has would be adaptable ?

Jim B. or Jeff Ward, ever see an operation like this ?

Best Wishes,

Jack

[Robertj668]

Jack

That is an interesting story.  I am curious on how much coal they pulled out.

Robert

[Jim Banner]

I have never seen a coal mining operation like that but I have seen gold mining that was not a whole lot different.  Up in the Yukon on the Klondike River just south of Dawson City they would dig a vertical shaft down to bedrock in the winter when the ground was frozen.  They would do this by building fires and shovelling on alternate days.  When they hit bedrock, they would follow its surface, digging tunnels just high enough to squeeze through and scrape as much paydirt from the top of the bedrock as they could.  In spring when their mine flooded, they would work the paydirt to take out the gold flour, if there was any.  Some years were good, other years the winters work was all for nothing.

That was the original mining method in 1900 or so.  Later, they went through the same area with dredges.  Later still, there were some small operations using cats in areas there the dredges couldn't go.  But as late as the 1960's there were still some traditionall shaft and tunnel mining in areas where even the cats couldn't go.

It is amazing how far men will go for a bit of shiny metal of limited usefullness.

This type of small operation would be easy to model, even on a micro layout.  We usually like to model summer so we could have a flowing stream with a bit of a dam to divert some of the water into a flume.  The flume would lead to a sluice box with a miner or two shovelling paydirt into it from a pile of ordinary looking dirt near a hole in the ground, partially filled with water.  Maybe a third man doing the final separation with a gold pan.  And somewhere near by, a tent or two as their camp.  This could probably all be squeezed into an H0 scene 3" x 6", particularly if the stream bed were steep so that the flume could be short.  So what does this have to do with model railroading?  Think Yukon and Whitepass.

Jim

[jsmvmd]

Dear Robert,

I will try to get a "holt" of the man and find out how much coal they could mine in a day, a year, a lifetime !

Dear Jim,

Very interesting, on your end, too.  I think I will do a micro layout with logging, mining and sluice operations, each one to represent a season !

Best Wishes,

Jack

[Robertj668]

Jack
That would be great!

Jim
Another great story.


Robert

[buzz]

Hi
The most obvious thing needed for a timber industry is a timber mill
and a means to get logs to the mill from the cutting area this could be rail dedicated road, Ariel rope way
I will assume its rail you want.
I would suggest a train of one 0-4-0 porter with home built tender two maybe three log cars a box car, water gin and a caboose all of which would be company owned.
The track run should be three times train length from mill yard throat
to the cutting camp entrance.
just a run around will do at the cutting camp don't forget a way of loading the log cars and the camp its self.
At the mill you need a log dump area, company store with siding hence the box car.
There may also be a bake house and butcher if the cutting area is not far from the mill if it is some distance away they may also have a cattle car
and stock race to load it as stock would be butchered at the camp..
Also loco stow road with fuel stack two foot long logs are ideal for this
water tank for loco water and ash pit, if its a profitable Major concern it will have a decent loco shed of a type suited to the weather conditions.
a workshop to repair machinery the trains and make stuff would also be at the mill site
A siding off the main line railroad to take product to the market is also needed what cars would be needed depends very much on the mill product
All in all quite an interesting addition to a layout with more to it than a lot of people realise.
Hope this makes some sense
regards John

[renniks]

John

Don't know about an "addition" to a layout. For many folk,this would be a layout in itself and even too much for some.
At the other extreme is something like a layout on the Exhibition circuit here in the UK which won a "best in show" award earlier this year. It is a shelf type layout with staging at one end, and portrays a semi permanent camp with store ,bunkhouses,dining hall/cookhouse and loco facilities. At the rear a track appears (from staging)from cutting site coming down via a switchback to the camp where another line (to staging) runs to mill and "elsewhere". A Shay or Climax runs log trains between top and bottom staging interspersed with trains from bottom staging to camp bringing in supplies. Seems to be enough to hold the attention of people including the operators.

Eric UK

[buzz]

Hi Eric
Yes addition log cars are not that big
Admitidly I might have got just a bit carried away, and created a branch line type addition to a  layout
Having looked at the history of local wood lines and they just cut fire wood.
They had quite a network of lines and rollingstock I would never have associated with wood lines.

Exhibition layouts are a bit different to a home layout they have to hold the attention of the public and enjoyment is somewhat secondary to keeping the public entertained.
Where as a home layout is wholly and Solly for the enjoyment of the builder.
regards John