Clarification on "DCC Ready" in Mogul and Consolidation Engines

[bnsonger47]

I'm looking for some clarification of what "DCC Ready" really means.

The reason I state it this way is due to my background. As a computer systems engineer I learned a long time ago that those who speak in marketing terms use ambiguous terms intentionally. I think "DCC Ready" is a case in point.

I'm rather new to DCC and it's implications in large scale. To my novice mind it is just plain confusing. I've done a search of DCC and came across some interesting discussion here but, to tell the truth, they leave me confused.

Back to my computer background. When I was in sales I would tell people if you want Apple, buy Apple stuff. If you want IBM, buy IBM stuff. Why? Because you really have to know your stuff when you go mixing and matching. Of course, that was back in the 1980's.

I know that, in theory, DCC is pretty standardized. DCC should work across brands. I also know that (layman's terms here) you need a "decoder" in a locomotive and a "controller" tied into the rails to control individual units. By Bachmann stating "DCC Ready" means one of two things to me: Decoder needed or decoder onboard and controller required. Those two issues can be miles apart.

So, to help, here are some questions.

Does Bachmann include a decoder with the Mogul and Consolidation engines?

If not, whose decoders (for placement in the engine) are compatible?

Does Bachmann make such a decoder?

Will the EZ Command with 5 Amp Booster work well? If not, what is required for satisfactory operation?

One final question. Is another technology for controlling multiple engines on the same track better? (I realize this may muddy the water a bit but I believe those of you who think independently understand.)

In other words, I want these engines running on about 200 feet of track in my garden railroad. Is my dog in the wrong hunt or my engine on the wrong track?

Byron

[Kevin Strong]

1) Does Bachmann include a decoder with the Mogul and Consolidation engines?

No. And to call either loco "DCC ready" is a bit of a stretch. Both locos require a bit of rewiring to install a decoder, unlike the K-27 and similar later releases which use a plug-and-play socket. I recently did a DCC install on a Consolidation, and found it much easier to gut the factory electronics in favor of the new stuff.

2) If not, whose decoders (for placement in the engine) are compatible?

QSI makes a good decoder, with decent sound to boot. Lenz, Digitrax, and other DCC manufacturers also make decoders that will work. Just make sure they're up to the current draw, which on these locos can be in the 2 to 3 amp range under load.

3) Does Bachmann make such a decoder?

Not to my knowledge.

4) Will the EZ Command with 5 Amp Booster work well? If not, what is required for satisfactory operation?

I can't answer definitively, but if it's a DCC controller and you're not drawing more than 5 amps, I can't see why it wouldn't.

5) One final question. Is another technology for controlling multiple engines on the same track better? (I realize this may muddy the water a bit but I believe those of you who think independently understand.)

Yes there are. The most common one for outdoors is battery power. These systems operate similar to DCC, though not necessarily using the DCC protocol. RCS, Airwire, and Aristo-Craft's "Revolution" are the three most common forms of battery R/C control. (Aristo has older R/C controls, too, but none that allow DCC-style control.)

There are also through-the-track systems that operate like DCC, but with proprietary protocols. MTH's DCS system is one example, LGB's MTS system is another.

Later,

K

[bnsonger47]

Kevin,

Again, your response is greatly appreciated.

I had heard that DCC wasn't so great for use in large scale -- OK for HO and the like but not great for large scale or outdoor use. You're helping me see the light.

I had been curious about Aristo-Craft's Revolution but, again, couldn't seem to get past the sales oriented language to really understand it's place in the scheme of things. It sure has gotten lots of hype. Sometime, as you know, hype is just what it is, hyperbola in type -- a couple of curves thrown at the reader to confuse the reader.

One more thing, if you don't mind. What do you mean when you say "battery power". Are you saying that the controller is battery powered and that the engine receives constant DC over the rail and that a receiver in the engine/tender is awaiting instructions with regard to throttle and sounds? Or, are you saying that the entire operation is battery powered -- moving the engine off of rail power to battery.

Personally, I'd rather avoid batteries if possible. You know, they're always dead or being charged when you want them most, not that lack of planning has anything to do with it.

Byron

[Nathan]

Like any control system, lots of people will say good or bad about any of them, including DCC.  My Dad, in his late 80's, and I have been using DCC in large scale for almost 15 years.

We happen to use the NCE 10 amp system with mostly Bachmann locomotives.  Even if we have lighting in our passenger cars and running 3 to 5 trains we tend to stay under 6 amps.

With your background, even the not DCC ready locomotives should be easy for you to convert.  The longest it has taken me to do a conversion has been 2 hours on the first 4-6-0 I did.  Most take under and hour.

No matter what control system you use, or if you stay with DC power, if you are providing power through the track, run extra feed points along the track.  With DCC you tend to have several trains drawing power from one power source at different places on the track.

[renniks]

Byron,

"DCC ready" can mean only that the motor is isolated, or that it has a PCB with a socket ready for a decoder---which may not help as some decoders are not fitted with plugs.
DCC equipped locos are variously described as "with DCC", "DCC fitted" or "DCC onboard".

As regards DCC generally--it is not as "standardized" as it should be. Some manufacturers have used various loopholes to do their own thing in a number of ways.

Eric UK

[bnsonger47]

Political observation: It seems that NMRA has a ways to go in getting DCC into a more tightly defined specification. Until that happens model railroading isn't being helped much. It would seem there should be some basic things that DCC does and standard plug-in architecture being on of them.

Where would we be if a standards committee hadn't gotten together and developed a Wi-Fi standard. Or how about the way HTML is handled. For that matter, there was Java and then Java according to different publishers. Finally, the Java camp realized that chaos was getting everyone nowhere.

Yes, there can be deviations but within a good, broad scope, the terminology ought to mean something.

So, from what I read, every locomotive is DCC Ready if you know how to hook up and wire things yourself.

Marketing hype. I do hate it. I'm just glad I've learned to see through it. (Back when I was in charge of purchasing for a small computer retailer the sales folks used to hate to see me -- I tended to keep them honest.)

Thanks for the responses. I'm seeing that this whole mess of controlling trains is really a consumer's choice with little real guidance to go on unless you know where to look and how to decide. It isn't for a novice, which is a shame because that's one of the decisions one would make early on. For instance, I read Kevin's nice review of the new Revolution in Garden Railways. I found it interesting that Revolution will not do some things that DCC is capable of but does have some features where DCC seems to be lacking. But, you can't mix and match. It's one or the other unless your pockets are as deep as an artesian well.

Byron

P.S. You guys on here are great. I've been on several forums and discussion boards and this one is top notch.

[bnsonger47]

Nathan,

You state that you and your dad "happen to use the NCE 10 amp system with mostly Bachmann locomotives.  Even if we have lighting in our passenger cars and running 3 to 5 trains we tend to stay under 6 amps."

Can you tell me more about this. Off the board would be OK ([email protected]

I can assure you, anything that takes you an hour to do will take me about two.

I prefer to keep the track powered and stay with DCC with all it's benefits and limitations and benefits.

I also plan to run extra feed points along the track as necessary. Do you have a guideline as to how many feet of track to consider for extra feeds? I'm using Aristo's stainless steel.

Thanks, in advance, for a possible response.