railroad or railway

[SlipMahoney]

As far as I can tell it's a question of potayto or potahto, depending on the year or circumstances.  I do have to admit that for a new guy looking to pick up a little information on model railroading this thread did make for some interesting reading, thanks.  Rick

[David(UK)]

And now you can all go and read the home page of the National Railway Historical Society < http://www.nrhs.com/library.htm > and note with great glee how they use the term Railway or Railroad with impunity!

[Atlantic Central]

David,

Would that be the National Railway Historical Society in the UK?

That will break Stewart's heart.

Sheldon

[David(UK)]

Ah, that I should be so cruel!
Nope it's your side of the puddle! We only have the The Historical Model Railway Society ( or something like that!)
By the way, just for fun Google 'railway historical society' and see how many Railways that turns up!

[Seasaltchap]

Could we please get to the point of agreeing that the terms are used interchangeably: and more so in the US?

My interest in this string is how the terms evolved.

To confirm: it is The Historical Model Railway Society in the UK, and The National Railway Museum, York.

Please note the definite articles, viz. The Automobile Association in the UK, and The National Trust in the UK.

[Atlantic Central]

OK Stewart, that's fine,

While we are at it, maybe we can figure out the reasons for;

wrench vs spanner
elevator vs lift
flashlight vs torch
hood vs bonnet
gasoline vs petrol
box car vs van
truck vs bogie
tie vs sleeper
trolley vs tram
highway vs motorway
apartment vs flat
keeping right vs keeping left
fries vs chips

and, my all time favorite as an Electrician, why anyone would wire buildings with general use outlets at 220 volts?

and the one thing imported from aross the Atlantic I would most love to send back - the traffic circle.

Two things I love from the UK, the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, but the Beach Boys and Billy Joel are high on my list too.

Also, 17th to 19th century English furniture is exquisite, as is most of the the Boston, New York, Phily and Baltimore furniture it inspired.

I live in a Queen Anne style house, the original modern floor plan.

But what do I know, I'm just a hick with a pickup and a gun. Some education, but definitly not enlightened.

Sheldon

[SteamGene]

Sheldon, you forget the English phrase that got a lot of GIs in trouble in WWII whilst stationed in England.
"Nice meeting you.  Knock me up some time, will you?"
Gene

[Atlantic Central]

Gene,

And so they did!

Sheldon

[Craig]

Sheldon,

I believe the proper UK term for traffic circle is roundabout. How about that, you found another one.

Craig

[SteveC]

While I’m new to railroad history and terminology, and by no stretch of the imagination could I claim to be knowledgeable, however...

Originally posted by: SteamGene

How many railroads are actually railways?<snip…>

Being that the original question posed by the topic seemed to be more along the lines of the frequency of use of the term “railroad” as opposed to the term “railway.”

I would think this would wind up being really difficult to arrive at an even semi-accurate answer.

Firstly, it would have to be qualified as to a specific era. Secondly, another decision that would have to be made is, which name would take precedence; i.e. the name the company was incorporated under or the name that it did business and operated under (DBA), not to mention those companies that operated (DBA) under multiple names.

In checking just a few present day railroads/railways, I’ve come across that fact that some are both railroads and railways at the same time, when you look at the incorporated name and the DBA name.

Originally posted by: Seasaltchap

<snip…> My interest in this string is how the terms evolved. <snip…>

With regard to the evolution of the terms “Railway” and “Railroad.” I would think that Railway would have come first. The reason I believe this, is in reading various old texts (i.e. circa 1700 â€" 1900) terms that predated railways/railroads e.g. pathway, roadway, wagonway, tramway, & highway etc. All had the suffix way in common. While in common everyday use these terms may have very well have been shortened to path, & road etc. for example.

However, in proper (or maybe formal) usage the suffix could imply a legal standing of the various types of routes. If I’m not mistaken in the UK there is a legal term Way-leave, which describes the legal right granted by the owner of the land to another individual for a specific type use (e.g. Iter = A foot-way, Adus = A foot-way and/or Horse-way, Via = A foot-way, horse-way, and/or cart-way) of a specified portion of their land, usually for a fee. My understanding is that Way-leave is similar to (but not exactly the same) the term easement in the U.S.

Another interesting point that I’ve run across is that in the UK the only private or governmental entity that can/could charter a ”Railway’ was by an act of Parliament. While tramways and such could be granted permission by a local governing body, if sharing a public road, or by private agreement (i.e. Way-leave) if the route didn’t cross public lands. Even though some so-called tramways operated in the same fashion as a railway carrying both freight and passenger traffic.

Just some interesting things I've run across in trying to find an answer.

[Seasaltchap]

Craig : We have the situation in Arizona where both "Traffic Circles" and "Traffic Roundabouts" are being used in public speech.

I cannot understand Sheldon's aversion to traffic circles, when they provide him with more freedom in his truck: whereas he is currently met with the authority of a Red Light.

Steve C. : Thank you.

The original posting by Gene is problematic because we have not agreed any difference between Railway and Railroad in order to apply a rule - beyond that which evolves to Sheldon's observations.

If it boils down to "Way" and "Road" regardless of whether it is "Rail", then "Way" at least, is in the literature back to Chaucer and further back to Roman times in the UK.

In the UK the term at Law exists of "Rights of Way" which had to be set by statute for the building of the canals and the railways, not only over public, but also private land in order to facilitate the purchase of land.

I am surprised for so many engineering types, that a reductionist mind was not applied in this way.

Regards

[Atlantic Central]

Stewart,

The traffic circle or roundabout is not the problem. The problem is stupid traffic engineers who make them too small for the 53' long truck trailers we should not have on the roads and the suburban mini van moms that don't know how to drive around them.

Whoops, I let a few more of my opinions show, oh well.

Those trucks should have been limited to 35' vans way back in 1957 and been deregulated then to allow them all to get on flat cars except for local delivery.

And the suburban soccer mom and the mini van, what a combination that is. Mini vans are the biggest joke. Most get the exact same mileage as similar sized SUV's, but mini vans are PC, SUV's are not. Wouldn't be caught dead owning a mini van. I want something with a frame under me. Still wish they made REAL station wagons, then I wouldn't want an SUV either.

If you want to know what a REAL station wagon is, do a search of "Checker Marathon" and see the station wagon they made from 1959 to 1980. And those things got over 20 mpg! The one I had with a 6 cylinder got almost 30 mpg.

And, my offer still stands. Anyone interested in the 1956 AAR list of railroad corporate names and reporting marks can contact me off list. At least as 1956 goes, it tells us who was a Rail Road, Railway or Railroad in North America.

Sheldon

[Terry Toenges]

Sheldon,
I'm on my 4th Astro/Safari minivan and I love them. It really bums me out that they were discontinued. I never did like the Ford/Moper ones.
My Safari has ample headroom for a tall guy like me where most other vehicles don't.
I can haul 4x8 sheets of anything (train layout) without fear of them getting wet and without having to buy a pick up truck to do it.
I can spread out the sleeping bags and sleep in my van because there is enough room for a tall guy like me to stretch out. It good when we are traveling and come to somewhere where the motels are full.
It's small enough to get into multi-level parking garages which I couldn't do with full size vans.
It's all wheel drive, so I can traverse mountains and gullys. It helps when you are exploring abandoned railroad roadbeds.
I get about 18 mpg when I'm traveling so I can live with that. It's my all purpose vehicle to me.

[Atlantic Central]

Terry,

I agree, I drove an Astro years ago working as an electrical construction project manager, while not full sized they where actually a truck, built on the same driveline and platform as an S-10 pickup. In fact, they where all built right here in Baltimore and I worked several projects that where part of the installation of that assembly line. I would not class an Astro van as a mini van by any means.

Mini vans are front wheel drive station wagons like orginally made by Chrylser. But even with their little transverse V-6's they still burn as much gas as Blazers and Explorers. Gas mileage is a function of weight more than anything else and it is hard to make mini vans much lighter than medium sized SUV's, so they use the same amount of fuel.

Just keep this in mind.

Do SUV's guzzle gas?

Honda Insight
2 seats x 63 mpg = 126 seat-miles per gallon

Ford Explorer
7 seats x 18 mpg = 126 seat miles per gallon

Transit Bus
35 seats x 3.6 mpg = 126 seat miles per gallon

My dads 69 Checker Marathon wagon - loaded with the 5 of us, our stuff and pulling our Apache camper at 65 MPH
7 seats x 18 mpg = 126 seat miles per gallon

YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY

Sheldon

[Atlantic Central]

Stewart,

One other note, I prefer to live in a population density that requires few if any traffic signals, stop signs are more than enough where I want to be.

We used to have a stop sign here in the Village of Forest Hill, now it is a traffic light. That is one of the reasons we are looking to move soon.

When I first starting driving at age 16, it was a 4 mile drive to the nearest traffic signal, I hope to recapture that experiance in retirement.

Sheldon