railroad or railway

[SteamGene]

How many railroads are actualy railways?  Where are they located?  I've known for a long time that it was the C&O Railway, but the same is true of the N&W and the Southern.  All are obviously thought of as being southeastern railroads, though the C&O actually had tracks in Canada and upstate New York. 
What were some others?
Gene

[Seasaltchap]

In 1825 it was "The Stockton & Darlington Railway", although George Stephenson had built his first steam engine to run on a railway at Killingworth Colliery in 1814, and another at Hetton Colliery, Durham in 1822.

And in 1804 Richard Trevithick is acknowledged to have built the World's first steam engine to run on a railway at Merthyr Tydfill in South Wales.

The worlds first passenger railway goes I think to "The Oystermouth Tramway" of 1807 in South Wales, subsequently "The Swansea & Mumbles Railway" However, for many years it was only horse drawn.

Does anyone have any earlier contenders to set the precedent for Railroad v. Railway?

Regards

[Atlantic Central]

Stewart,

"precedent for Railroad vs. Railway" ? Maybe its just me, but nothing about Gene's post gave me the impression that his post was about which came first or which is "correct", but more about what the corperate fathers of a particular line chose to call it.

The B&O (1828) and the Strasburg (1832), two of the oldest charters in North America are both Railroads. Actually to be even more correct the term on their charters is Rail Road.

NMRA data sheet D9i.1, dated Oct 1956, is a list of AAR reporting marks and corperate names of North American roads. A quick scan shows Railroad, or Rail Road, having about a two to one edge over Railway, but lots of lines where offically Railways. and while a lot of the Railways are in the south, there are examples all over North America.

Two most notable ones are neither, the Southern Pacific Company and the Reading Company.

I don't know if this info is on the NMRA site, I have my original print version from when I joined in 1968.

Sheldon

[SteamGene]

Sheldon,
You are correct.  I'm not interested in the youngest, oldest, longest, shortest, etc.   Just "railway" vs "railroad."  I know that often a "railway" is called a "railroad" by those who don't know.  For instane the Hampton Hstory Museum has "C&O Railroad," or at least it did.  AFAIK, they have not corrected it after I brought it to their attention.  Of course the same museum labeled a picture of a C&O steam passenger loco as something like "the locomotive pulls its tender..." 
I didn't know that both the SP and Erie were neither...
Gene

[JerryB]

A recent posting on the Yahoo Historic Sierra Railway group's "Today in Sierra History, 3/31":

"1937: The Sierra Railway is sold at public auction to the Sierra Railroad Company"

Interesting how the owners and names change over years. It's still the Sierra Railway with me!!

Happy RRing,

Jerry

[Matt Bumgarner]

It is my understanding that the two terms are used interchangeably. Many railroads, upon merger/receivership/reorganization, would maintain their main name and simply change the "Railroad" part of their name to "Railway" or vice versa.

[Seasaltchap]

SteamGene :  I was looking to the root of the usage of the words. They were obviously new to the lexicon.

Sheldon : I think it must be you, and that you are also given to mean "Corporate".

Matt : I think your explaination of the interchangeability of the words is what we are actually witnessing. New owners want to keep the goodwill in a name, with the least amount of change, and yet to give notice of the new management.

For me it is Railway, and Railroad is a very American thing.

Regards

[scottychaos]

Matt has it right..
the two terms were used randomly in the US, and usually changed because of reorganizations, bankruptcy, etc..
for example, here is the history of the various names of the Erie "Railroad"

New York and Erie Rail Road: 1832-1861
Erie Railway: 1861-1875
New York, Lake Erie and Western Railway: 1875-1893
Erie Railroad: 1893-1960

Often a railroad would go bankrupt, reorganize, and go back in business as a totally new company, and only change "road" to "way" in the company name,..but from a legal standpoint "Erie Railway" is a totally different company from "Erie Railroad"..even if its track, locomotives, employees, etc, didnt actually change...usually just management or ownership changed with a name change from "road" to "way or vice-versa..

where a railroad's name ended up just has to with the name it had when the last round of bankruptcy's were finished!

today the Susquehanna Railroad is technically the Susquehanna Railway..not many people know that..

Scot

[Seasaltchap]

Scot : Thanks for your confirmation.

.........not many people know that..
Scot

Are you a Michael Caine Fan ?

Regards

[Atlantic Central]

Stewart,

I would think not so since Gene confirmed my understanding of his post.

And, I am an native born American, living in The United States of America, posting messages on the message board of the American division of a company that manufactures and markets models of American trains in America.

And I model American Railroad, Railway and Rail Road practices, as does Gene and most of those who post on this board.

As for my spelling error, well, you show me someone who has never made a mistake, and I will show you someone who has never done anything.

Stop trying to "convert" us or "save" us from our provincial selves, I for one don't need or want to be saved.

So for me it is Rail Road, Railway or Railroad, depending on what the sovereign owners of that company chose to call it.

Sheldon

[Terry Toenges]

I am only offering my thoughts and can't remember if I read this somewhere.
The British use railway and we (the US)  use railroad.  Very early ones in the US used railway because of the obvious British connections back then. As we became more Americanized, we used railroad.

[Seasaltchap]

Sheldon : I don't see this as a cause for you to get uptight.

Please don't tell us you are NOT getting uptight.

The words "Convert" and "Save" are yours.

Several in this thread have put forward quite plasible reasoning that has nothing to do with the insecurity you display.

Please do not tell us that you are NOT insecure.

AND, please listen to that guy you related who told you it was not appropriate for you to have guns.

Regards

Stewart

[Atlantic Central]

Gene,

Please accept my appoligies for letting this get out of control.

Stewart,

If one reads this thread fully, one sees that I was the one who pointed out the wide spread use of both terms here in North America. How about a little respect for what people or organizations choose to call themselves? I think that was at the heart of what Gene was driving at in the first place.

The C&O chose to be a Railway, The B&O chose to be a Rail Road, to call them by the other term is disrepectfull.

Sheldon

[SteamGene]

I think my whole point was two fold:
Which is actually more common?
Where does each occur?
As pointed out, the general public seems to attach "railroad" to all - even those interested do the same.  After all, it's MODEL RAILROADER, not MODEL RAILWAYER. 

Stewart,  while I disagree with Sheldon on most things political and social, I'd have no problem being around him while he is armed.  But then I spent most of my life around folks with weapons.  I've carried and used them myself and will again when I find it necessary.   Of course, right now, I should go to the range and practice if I thought it were necessary. 
Gene

[anoldrail]

SteamGene

As near as I can tell, the term Railway was ususlly associated with rail lines that cover short routes or areas, and did not run with the heavy rail and equipment found on the big main line systems. 

I remember as a lad starting to work for the CB&Q, I ask that question and someone told me it had to do with the land grant railroads.  I've look for that and can't find anything to back up that, but thats what I was told.  If the company received a land grant from the US government it was a railroad, if not it was a railway.  Wish i could find something definitive on this.  Oh well.   

Anyway hope this helps a little