Electro and Insulfrog turnouts

[Bill Baker]

Peco offers both electro and insulfrog turnouts.  Can someone tell me the difference between the two?  I assume the wiring is different in some way.

Thanks, Bill

[simkon]

Turnouts are available with 'live' (metal) or insulating (plastic) frogs. The Electrofrog points require more complex wiring, to avoid short-circuits, but are designed to give more reliable operation of locomotives. In these the frogs are powered seperately from everything else. With Insulfrog turnouts, no additional wiring is necessary because the frogs are not powered, so all you have to do is your regular wiring.

[CNE Runner]

Bill, as a longtime Peco user and supporter I can tell you Electrofrog turnouts are the way to go. Before I go into that subject let me just say that Peco turnouts are bulletproof. Why? The points, in a Peco turnout, are spring loaded and make excellent contact with the stock rails (the points are usually powered through this contact). I should warn you that this spring loading would have to be disconnected if you are using a Tortoise switch machine as it may interfere with the machine's operation.

Installing Peco Electrofrog turnouts is really not that different from any other turnout. Because the frog is 'live' it must be electrically isolated. All that is required is some insulating rail joiners on the converging rails. The switching of the frog's polarity is handled within the turnout itself...you don't have to do anything - but isolate it from the rest of the track. For some excellent information on Peco products and their associated wiring try:

http://www.loystoys.com/peco/about-electrofrog.html

Because I tend to run short locomotives, I swear by Peco products: no stalls, no balking, flawless operation. Peco products tend to be more costly than others because they are made in the UK and their price reflects the unfavorable monetary exchange rate between the US dollar and the Pound Sterling.

I am just beginning the planning on my third layout featuring Peco track products and wouldn't have anything else. If you are also in the planning stages of layout construction, there is free planning software at http://www.anyrail.com/index_en.html that has a full library of Peco (and others) track components. If you like what you see, you can purchase the entire program...something I did.

I hope this helps,
Ray

[Chris350]

there is free planning software at http://www.anyrail.com/index_en.html that has a full library of Peco (and others) track components. If you like what you see, you can purchase the entire program...something I did.

I hope this helps,
Ray

Too bad it like most of the others, all except one that I know of, it's for winderz only. For we few Mac users, I've only found RailModeler.  Sorry for he hijacking, but it is close to on topic....

Back on topic I wondered how the elctro frog turnouts handled polarity....  They're very nice switches, gut I have yet to be able to justify the cost over an Atlas with a ground throw.

[Bill Baker]

Ray,
Thanks for the great response and website.  I have an ideal spot for a double curved turnout, but I noticed it's only offered in code 100 and I use code 83.  DRAT!!!

[CNE Runner]

Hey Chris - Yes, I can feel your frustration all the way in Alabama: Mac vs PC. Frankly, although I was well trained on Macs and used them exclusively in my business; I had to go to a PC some ten years ago. Reason?..availability of software. It ain't fair; but that's the way it is.

Bill - This probably isn't of any assistance; but Peco offers a combined rail joiner (# SL-112) that joins Code 75 to Code 100 track...unfortunately I didn't find a similar product for your application. What I did find was that Walthers offers a Transition Track in their Walthers/Shinohara line (# 948-897). My proposal is that you would use a Code 100 Peco double curve turnout and use the Walthers transition track to join it to the rest of your track. Does this help?

Regards,
Ray

[Michigan Railfan]

So, CNE Runner, I know I should just probably make another topic for this question, but the HO board has enough topics. So, what are the differences between the codes of track? Like, code 55 between code 70, and between other codes.

[simkon]

It is the height of the rail. Code 100 track is .100 inches high, code 83 track is .083 inches high, code 70 is .070 inches high, and etc. In real life, most mainline track is proportional to code 83 track. Very few if any track in real life was close to code 100. Code 70 and smaller can be used for non class I lines, sidings, yards, etc.
By the way, Atlas makes code 100 to 83 transition joiners, they work pretty good but not great.

[Michigan Railfan]

Simkon, when the trains run over the joiners, do the cars and engines go up and down, like to where you would notice them? I mean, would it be like a gradual slope?

[simkon]

Where I used my transition joiners was on my old layout where I used code 83 24" radius curves and the flex-track and switches were code 100. The way I had it the code 83 was the same height as the code 100 because I used a slightly higher roadbed for the code 83 and the transition joiners made up the rest of the difference. The way I did it, it wasn't noticeable. What type of roadbed do you use?

[ebtbob]

Good Evening All,

          First of all,  really the only thing different about the insulfrog and electrofrog is the need to cap the two converging rails at the frog on the two track end of the turnout.  I use the Peco electrofrog turnouts on my DCC controled railroad and love them.
          I also use Tortoise switch machines on three of my Peco turnouts.  I left the spring in the throw arm and substituted a heavier wire than the one supplied with the motor.   Again,  no problems
          As far as using code 100 and code 83 rail,  there are a number things that can be done.   There are transitional railjoiners,  Walthers has a transision track and here is another interesting fact.   If you are using Atlas track,  take a piece of code 100 rail track and a piece of code 83 track and put them together without the railjoiners and you will find the rails meet at an even height because the code 83 joiner is thicker.

Bob

[rogertra]

To join one code to another, simply slide a rail joiner halfway onto the end of the larger rail, crush the "empty" half of the rail joiner with a pair of pliers and solder the small rail onto the top of the now crushed rail joiner.  A little bit of clean up filing with a jeweler's file and there you go, one transition joint.

That's how I do join the code 100 rail used on the staging yard approach track and all through the staging yard to the code 70 rail I use on the visible parts of the GER.  Had zero problems in over ten years and neither should anyone else, if you just take a little care with that one pair of rail joiners.

[buzz]

Hi Bill
The difference has allready been explained well enough between insulfrog and electro frog
I have used Peco track for many years mostly insulfrog as that suited my style of layout I have used there set and flex track
It isn't cheap in Aus either the only other track I have used and found to be as good is flieschmann (spelling) but I don't have enough arms and legs to use flieschmann track.
I will not use anything other than Peco points I have yet to find any other brand as good at an affordable price
wonder will the LHS supply 1 Peco concrete sleeper length of track rather than a box.
A word of caution it might just be me using the wrong ground throw, but I have had problems with Caboose industries ground throws possably something to do with the point spring in Peco points.
any one got any ideas on this.
regards John

[CNE Runner]

Hi Buzz - I had the same problem, with Caboose ground throws, and assumed the problem was the Peco point springs. I took out all the ground throws and now use the 'Finger of God' method to throw the points...works everytime. One of the best things about Peco turnouts is the spring tension that holds the point rails against the stock rails...something I do not want to do away with. Should I eventually install switch motors; I will probably use Peco units as they are designed to overcome the spring tension.

Ray

[ebtbob]

Buzz,

       I use nothing but Peco electorfrog HO turnouts, remounted on wood ties on my On30 railroad.    There are about 9 of the original plastic ties still in place including those around the point rail throw bar.   I use Caboose Industries hand throws with no problem.   Now,  that being said, I use the sprung version,  such as a 218S.   They are a sprung throw as opposed to the rigid version,  i.e. 218R.  Use the sprung version as they are a bit more forgiving when you install them.    Using the rigid version,  you placement of the handthrow needs to be, basically,  dead on.  Take the handle and put it vertical to the turnout.   Center the points and install the hand throw.  I prefer the 218S because this hand throw comes with a variety
of attachments to allow you to use any type of turnout available.  I leave the spring in the turnout also.   BTW....I have a number of turnouts that I had to make throw arm extentions so that the hand throws are back far enough from the track so my K27's cylinders do not hit the throw.