I am planning my layout with Anyrail with Bachmann HO EZtrack. I am trying to decide how to do a crossover between two parallel tracks as to use 1 remote crossover #44575 and 1 remote crossover #44576 or to use 2 #44559 and 2 #44560 remote turnouts. I am using analog DC with two separate controllers for the loops. I would like to know where to isolate the various rails for the two controller operation for both options at the crossovers or turnouts and what is the better option to be more lifelike than the other. Still learning. With the #6 crossovers I have the minimum distance between two tracks.
The #6 crossovers require modification for use in a DC layout. They were designed for use in DCC layouts, with no simple provision to electrically isolate the two sides.
Len
Caution – Some of the instructions, which can be found, to modify the Bachmann #6 remote crossover turnout 447575 and 44576 for use in a DC power layout are not accurate. Do not use any instructions that have you cutting any wires. Also, it is easy for most to botch the modifications without illustrated instructions.
It would be nice if Bachmann included those illustrated instructions in the box with the crossovers. Or at least posted them in the "References" area of their web page. This comes up often enough it should have been done years ago.
Better yet, redesign it with jumpers that can be removed to create the appropriate gaps for use on DC layouts.
Len
Thanks for the info. I thought that the crossover was made for dc-so I will switch to the turnouts.
Quote from: Len on March 27, 2015, 04:21:43 PM
The #6 crossovers require modification for use in a DC layout. They were designed for use in DCC layouts, with no simple provision to electrically isolate the two sides.
Len
I built my 12'x14' foot layout with two independent "loops" for continuous operations with the ability to cross from one to the other. This was in pre-DCC days. When I changed to DCC I did not have to change any of the wiring. I just disconnected the power pack (DC) and replaced it with a command station (DCC).
Electricity is electricity, regardless of the wave form.
Gus.
Quote from: guslcp on March 29, 2015, 11:37:38 AM
Quote from: Len on March 27, 2015, 04:21:43 PM
The #6 crossovers require modification for use in a DC layout. They were designed for use in DCC layouts, with no simple provision to electrically isolate the two sides.
Len
I built my 12'x14' foot layout with two independent "loops" for continuous operations with the ability to cross from one to the other. This was in pre-DCC days. When I changed to DCC I did not have to change any of the wiring. I just disconnected the power pack (DC) and replaced it with a command station (DCC).
Electricity is electricity, regardless of the wave form.
Gus.
Gus, Len is talking about the Bachmann DCC crossovers, very different to what you are thinking.
Gus,
My comment was specifically in regard to this, and the 44576:
(http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/images/HO_Scale/44575.jpg)
Without modification there is no way to electrically isolate the two sides of the crossover for use in DC layouts.
Len
Quote
. . .
Electricity is electricity, regardless of the wave form.
Gus.
Gus that is fact. However, what you are missing is the knowledge of how a Bachmann HO #6 Remote Crossover Turnout is wired.
You can isolate anything with a rotory tool and a nice cut off wheel that can make some fine isolation cuts where ever you want.That is all part of model railroading.Modifications with your ideas.Good Idea to make your plans and be sure what you want to do before you change your mind ,and keep safety first .Practice on scrap rail until you feel comfortable,or have someone else do it for you that has expierance using this type of tool.
Pat.
A rotary tool is fine, if you have a good, steady hand. For cutting gaps in track that's already in place I use a very fine track-cutting saw. It cuts a gap that's barely wider than the thickness of a sheet of clear acetate which I glue in place and file to conform to the track's profile. You really have to look to notice it's there.
Gus
Quote from: MCENTRAL on March 29, 2015, 09:11:48 PM
You can isolate anything with a rotory tool and a nice cut off wheel that can make some fine isolation cuts where ever you want.That is all part of model railroading.Modifications with your ideas.Good Idea to make your plans and be sure what you want to do before you change your mind ,and keep safety first .Practice on scrap rail until you feel comfortable,or have someone else do it for you that has expierance using this type of tool.
Pat.
As Hunt stated you don't realize how the Bachmann crossover is wired, it is already gapped
Quote from: Jerrys HO on March 29, 2015, 10:48:46 PM
Quote from: MCENTRAL on March 29, 2015, 09:11:48 PM
You can isolate anything with a rotory tool and a nice cut off wheel that can make some fine isolation cuts where ever you want.That is all part of model railroading.Modifications with your ideas.Good Idea to make your plans and be sure what you want to do before you change your mind ,and keep safety first .Practice on scrap rail until you feel comfortable,or have someone else do it for you that has expierance using this type of tool.
Pat.
As Hunt stated you don't realize how the Bachmann crossover is wired, it is already gapped
Now at the same time I am curious and confused obviously.Then the track isolated from each side,so how can they work only on DCC not on DC? Seems backwards from what I am used to .
The real problem is with the connections under the roadbed, not the rails. And some of the instructions out on the net regarding this are flat out wrong.
Bachmann needs to step up and provide clear instructions, with pictures, on the right way to modify a #6 Crossover for use in a DC layout.
Len
Dear All,
As sold, the #6 HO E-Z Track Crossovers have no gaps in the rails between the 2 main lines.
A cut (and plastic and epoxy repair) to each of those two rails, and cuts to certain foils underneath are needed to
isolate the two main lines from each other.
1.) Extra care and continuity checking (with an Ohm-meter, e.g.) are needed to assure that the rails that should be electrically
isolated/disconnected from each other after the cutting proceedure are, and
2.) Extra care and continuity checking are needed to assure that the rails that should be electrically
connected to each other after the cutting proceedure are.
Continuity Checklist here:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,8052.0.html
Unfortunately, David Harrison's website (with modification pictures) is no longer available.
Repeating what Len just said:
What we really need are good diagrams (drawings) of the proceedure, and good close up photos of the underside workings
of the crossover.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
What's really needed is for Bachmann to redo the crossovers with gaps in the rails and jumpers underneath that can be removed for DC operation. Short of that, the instructions for the modification need to be posted.
Bachmann missed a bet making the crossovers "DCC Only".
At the LHS my repair shop was located in they stopped carrying them. The reason was 3 out of every 4 sold would be returned because, "They don't let me run trains on two loops at the same time on my DC layout." Or some variation of that.
While it's true DCC is growing, most people begin with a DC powered starter set. And they, looking to expand to a double loop, are the ones who were buying the #6 crossovers. Only to be disappointed with the results.
If they had been designed from the outset for use with DC, as well as DCC, layouts, sales of #6 crossovers would be way higher than it is.
Len
Len,
I just thought of something...
Perhaps the crossover rails don't need to be cut.
Think about it.
When running through the two mains, no train travels on the route between, therefore the voltages on the crossover rails don't matter.
If a train crosses over, the rails on both sides of each insulated cut have to be at (externally switched to) the same voltage !
A solid rail has the same voltage all along itself...
So that just leaves cuts underneath to the foils.
The only drawback would be if a derailed main line car dragged its wheels across the top of the frog and
shorted the main and divergent frog rails together.
Think about it...
Joe Satnik
Quote from: Joe Satnik on March 30, 2015, 12:03:17 PM
Dear All,
As sold, the #6 HO E-Z Track Crossovers have no gaps in the rails between the 2 main lines.
A cut (and plastic and epoxy repair) to each of those two rails, and cuts to certain foils underneath are needed to
isolate the two main lines from each other.
1.) Extra care and continuity checking (with an Ohm-meter, e.g.) are needed to assure that the rails that should be electrically
isolated/disconnected from each other after the cutting proceedure are, and
2.) Extra care and continuity checking are needed to assure that the rails that should be electrically
connected to each other after the cutting proceedure are.
Continuity Checklist here:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,8052.0.html
Unfortunately, David Harrison's website (with modification pictures) is no longer available.
Repeating what Len just said:
What we really need are good diagrams (drawings) of the proceedure, and good close up photos of the underside workings
of the crossover.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik
Thank you Joe,I Thought I was correct in regards to the gaps or no gaps between the main lines .Have been using B-mann products for years and ran a store for 10 years before the economy collapsed in MI.Seems there are a few here that should take note learn there products they sell.I do like to help others ,and it seems I was correct after all,but l was not 100%,but was looking to clarify this here also.Thought old age was catching up.Thanks again Pat
Joe,
It's not crossing over that requires the rail gaps. If you are running two trains, one on the inner and one on the outter loop, you need to gap the crossover rails to prevent shorts if they are running in opposite directions. Which means opposite polarities on the tracks.
Even if the foils underneath are gapped, if the rails aren't you still get a short when the loops are set to opposite directions.
Len
Since our image is vertical, I shall call out the "Left" and "Right" mainlines.
If
1.) the frogs are isolated from the frog rails, and
2.) there is not a derailed wheel touching and shorting the frog rails together, and
3.) the left and right mainlines are electrically separated (have their foils cut), and
4.) both turnouts are set to main line running,
The voltage on the crossing rails will not matter, even if the trains on the mainlines are running in opposite direction.
(http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/images/HO_Scale/44575.jpg)
With the proper underside foils cut (but the crossing rails not cut):
Left straight stock rail
Left divergent point
Left curved (divergent) closure rail are all connected to the Left power supply +
Left curved stock rail
Left mainline point
Left mainline closure rail
Left mainline frog rail are all connected to the Left power supply -
Right curved stock rail
Right mainline point
Right mainline closure rail
Right mainline frog rail are all connected to the Right power supply +
right straight stock rail
right divergent point
right curved closure rail are all connected to the Right power supply -
With no rail cuts, the divergent frog rail is the same as the opposite side's curved stock rail.
For crossover action, tie both mainlines to only one power supply
through external electrical switches, while keeping the same polarity as above.
I 'm pretty sure not cutting the crossover rails works, you just have to avoid shorting the frog rails
(one of which is the curved stock rail from the other mainline) with a derailed wheel.
If the power supplies are truly floating, then the short shouldn't matter at all.
Hope this isn't too confusing.
Sincerely,
Joe Satnik